Yes, and things are getting worse and money isn’t give it away. As for internal build quality, I don’t think it’s the only manufacturer tightening its belt, but I touch wood and time will bring the answer…
Hi Bongoman, I have the Norma IPA 70 with the Duke 2’s and the former is just getting in to its stride and works really well with the Marten’s. My listening room is small so the 140 was overkill, but the 70 is very similar sonically, just a little less of everything (and £2k cheaper). The Dukes are very revealing and pair well with Norma whereas I don’t think they match well with the Naim signature.
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Good to hear the the Duke 2s are working well with the Norma IPA 70. To be frank, this Marten Duke 2 has TRULY sparked a big round of upgrades in my case as it’s just too damn revealing, and most importantly nice. I’m at the end of the road with respect to upgrades but have lately gone bonkers by considering a top-range power cord from Acrolink Mexcel where its used price is close to £2,000 (after some words of encouragement from owners who own some of these top cords). All for the love of music.
It is surprising that the Duke 2s do not match well with Naim. Initially I suspected the over-exuberance of the 282/250DR to be the culprit and assumed the 252 and 552 would do a lot better. However, it appears that Bongoman still found the Duke 2s to sound underwhelming with the 552. It looks like Naim amplifiers which include the mighty 552 may not be the best match for Marten speakers which is quite a surprise actually.
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Not sure I agree with that Ian. With Naim you have choice. Buy an integrated or simple pre/power if you wish for more simplicity. The apparent complexity comes from the ability to upgrade via power supplies.
However, with more people looking for lower box counts I do wonder if a high performance integrated, perhaps 5 series, would sell well? The market does seem to be shifting in recent years.
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I ended up with five boxes on my 200/202 set up .
I thought that was two too many as well as the complexity of it. So I downsized . Went in expecting to purchase a SN3 but ended up with a Rega Aethos instead (better synergy with my P3ESR speakers) . Still using my CDX2, NAT03 and UnitiQute2 (as a DAC for my AV system )
In total agreement with you that a high performance integrated would be an asset to the Naim range
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Stuart, Naim already have two performance integrated amps in the 5 series - the NAIT 5Si and the NAIT XS3. And if you want even higher performance then there’s the Supernait3.
Or perhaps you mean’t 500 series? At this level the benefits of proper separation, especially between power supplies and sensitive pre-amp circuitry, become very marked, so it might have to be very big, in which case separating parts into their own boxes makes a lot of sense when the highest possible performance is top priority. But who knows what the future may bring…
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Well they sort of did that with Statement. Not an integrated but the pre amp is a single box. Just a really big one. The whole “ahh but it is two boxes really just joined together” argument doesn’t really fly because other high end makers basically do the same thing: Put two things in one really massive box and internally within separate rooms or sub boxes. The user cannot separate the power supply from the preamp in Statement so really, let’s face it, it is a single box preamp.
I guess the question is really, is it more manageable for a user to deal with one massive 50Kg box or two smaller boxes and few cables?
I prefer the flexibility multiple boxes gives. Clearly not everyone is of the same opinion but that’s okay too.
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I think I would be hoping for Naim to make something that competes with the higher end Luxman , Rega Isis , Avid, Moon all build integrated Amps way outside the price range of the SN3 . Moon make a £12,000 integrated and Avid even more.
In my ideal system, we keep quality up and box count down .
I do appreciate that in the end it is a question of compromise unless of course you want to build a Statement
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Yeah, well Linn did that with the LK1/LK2 which had the power supply in a separate case inside the main case. The only problem was they sounded ***** compared to Naim…
You pays your money and takes your choice. You get Naim and embrace the separate power supplies in order to get you the sound you enjoy. Or you get a super integrated from somebody else and enjoy that. There is no reason why Naim should make a super integrated just as there is no reason others should go for separation.
My beloved 272 is a case in point. I bought it for £3,600 five years ago. Now it has a 555PS and it’s a totally different machine. It saves Naim making two different models and enabled me to upgrade when the funds were available, without selling the original box. It’s just an approach, neither good nor bad. People often say that they ‘must’ add multiple power supplies. No they don’t. It’s simply their choice to do so.
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Yes Richard, I should have written 500.
I had the SN3 in mind obviously as a high performance integrated. I have never owned a Nait having come from an Exposure X many years ago. It’s the low box count vs quality argument that seems to have come to the fore in recent years. I just wonder if Naim could do it without a complete range update.
For the record I am happy with my four box 252/300 and would not personally go to an integrated.
Stu
Thanks Richard. I sometimes take a deep sigh when the Naim integrated amps are looked upon as crap . My Xs3 with Built-in phono stage was a big step up from my Arcam amp which was itself a decent performer.
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As I write this post, Max, from my 300 foot yacht that is currently moored in Cannes Harbour, I can barely imagine your suffering.
The only thing that stops me from throwing myself overboard is the profound and soothing tonality of the Lacrimosa, wafting from the 4 DBLs that surround me…
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Ah - slumming it again, are you?
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Er, 6 box inc. CDP and psu…
BTW, I have always thought your profile icon was a photo of the heads of a pair of lamas.
Now I see that it’s just two small dogs and their shadows I feel weirdly crestfallen.
300 foot yacht?
You should see what one family member is on
Not sure about the amplification but I suspect there are a helluva lot of tannoys
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I am so sorry that you feel crestfallen JimDog. It gave me a laugh though! The dogs will be impressed too.
Yes, four boxes for the amplifier only. Plus 2 each for the CDS3 and LP12.
They will always be lamas to me!
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I thought they were llamas too.
Blimey…
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