This should probably have been put in this thread and not the “The Naim New Classic Range - Part 2” thread. Yes @DiggyGun did get me thinking.
Yesterday I had a very useful demo session with one of HiFi dealers in my area. 3 systems were reviewed for comparison with same 5 tracks (selected by myself) used for listening to each system.
Systems:
222 powered by 300 into NC250 into Kudos 20A. This is what I have at home.
333 powered by 300 into 332 into NC250 into Kudos 20A
Linn DSM Select Edition with 2 x stereo cards with Organik DAC fitted into Kudos 20A (driven Active)
Quick summary.
The 5 tracks were listened to using system 1 to set my ears and confirm sound is pretty much as I recalled from home. Suffice to say all was good and sounded familiar.
We then moved to system 2 and repeated the tracks. The difference was noticeable immediately on track one. I described it as much more resolved. Still very good but as @Mark63 intimates above potentially a little bright. The other tracks had a similar feel in that I could hear more individual notes but it felt different, definitely a sense of being brighter. Would need some time listening to see if it was what I really wanted.
We then moved to system 3. I must confess I was expecting a bright sharp presentation (based on previous reading/hearsay) but was very pleasantly surprised. It was warmer than expected, but still retaining an improved resolution to that of system 1. To me it had better resolution of notes than system 1 but had retained some of the coherence that I liked from system 1.
Decision time now. I was intrigued by the Linn system, was the presentation down to the Organik DAC or was it because we were driving the speakers in an active mode. I don’t know, what I do know is that I enjoyed the presentation and feel I like it. The Linn system also has the advantage of being a one box solution which is something that Mrs O would prefer over the 3 box option currently in use at home and definitely prefer over an increase to 4 boxes aka system 2. Its also a bit odd that if an upgrade is agreed when consider trade in etc it is very likely (TBC by dealer when they provide first stab figures) that the Linn system will cost less than the Naim 4 box system 2. Anyway back at home now with System 1 and it is not at all bad - it is not out of the race as yet.
Handy feature with the Selekt being able to bi and tri amp as needed.
Not sure if they had it enabled in your demo setup but being able to hear a correctly defined Space Optimisation model both on and off is a good test as well.
The Organik DAC (esp. where combined with the Utopik PSU) is where the Selekt really stands out, not just in terms of configurability but in performance, I imagine a bi-amp power amp cartridges setup with a pair of Organik DAC’s feeding them would give many systems a run for their money, the fact it does this in a way that isn’t fussy, space hogging or requiring a remortage to cable together only adds to the appeal further.
The other plus being you can easily swop in a line out cartridge and feed a power amp or active speakers should your preferences take you that way.
I’ve had mine some time now and found it to be stable and reliable and with a fuss free app and simple IR based remote as well.
I still want to try ATC actives on mine at some point out of curiosity.
I heard that at Audiobarn and found it very captivating.
Simple and sounding good is a hard combo to find, it’s also the reason I like my Atom so much!
I paid £1400 for mine which was less than a year old, that sounds and feels like a real
bargain all told.
My Atom sits hidden in a cupboard under my TV driving in wall speakers but makes such a difference even just watching TV let alone listening to music.
That’s about as discreet and unobtrusive a system as you can get and one that didn’t leave a massive hole in my finances either.
The Selekt I’ve been able to grow in to and adapt over time and it still delivers the goods and mine is only a Katalyst spec!
I, like you, tend prefer the standard EE8 SMPS. I have tried the iFI power supply along with several other supplies. I initially find them interesting as I think they all add a slightly different perspective to what you are use to. Trouble is, after a few weeks, I just find myself becoming a little critical and remembering how a performance sounded with the standard SMPS and I end up going back to it. I’ve recently had some stellar evenings where the system has been sounding quite exceptional and I’m reluctant to change anything at the moment!
There’s something about the upper mids and high frequency that the standard SMPS reveals so well. It’s so much more detailed than on other supplies and it seems a lot faster. I just seem to hear more. The other supplies I’ve tried can sound nicer, cleaner and more refined but, as you say, less engaging.
I’ll be interested to hear your thoughts in a couple of weeks time once you’ve got use to the signature.
I’ve been using it about a week now. I was planning to put the back the original EE8 SMPS tomorrow and see if I can hear a difference.
If no significant improvement, I can send it back as the dealer has a 30 days returns policy. All I’ve got to do is pay postage.
Like everything in this hobby, nothing ventured, nothing gained. I must admit that I do enjoying trying things, sometimes they work and sometimes they don’t, but it’s all fun in the end.
That’s the sort of think I like to read. I’ve been very happy with my EE with its standard PS. I bought an ifi for something else, a few years ago, and it conked out after a couple of months.
Not wishing to be controversial or critical, but I have seen that signature described as digital noise. The less noisy your digital gets the warmer and smoother it tends to sound. The trick, which I think you have achieved is stopping when it sounds good to you. I am very sensitive to any etching in the mids and highs, it is like nails on a blackboard for me so have all sorts of “enhancements” in the chain.
Funny, because I think I’m hearing much more detail in those upper frequencies that normally gets smeared and had concluded it was because something is making it quieter. I also find I’m very sensitive to all sorts of audio peculiarities - something my dealer has often commented on!
If I switch in an LPS, which I can do quite quickly, the level of detail seems to diminish substantially. For sure everything gets a bit nicer but also a bit softer. I seem to lose some subtle stereo effects that I was getting in the high frequencies. Cymbal edges lose their sparkle and attack. Everything becomes slightly less real as I also seem to lose some spatial cues. The only place the LPS seems to improve is the bass. This does seem firmer and goes deeper but it’s bordering on being overblown. I actually prefer the lighter dryer bass from the SMPS.
In fact ‘dry’ is a good description of the overall sound that the SMPS seems to bring. No overhang, fast, clear and tonally very accurate.
There are linear ps and linear ps. When I had the Uptone lps and the one forbidden to write here, the stock SMPS of the Etheregen switch was livelier and faster. These ps costed around 300/400 euros.
But with the Uptone js1 and top MCRU, the improvement was large, in all areas, be it prat, soundstage, clarity, bass , details, much more organic and textured sound
It’s a bit similar when using the XPS XS on an Ndx2 or past Cdx2. It tends to mellow the sound but remove dynamics. Add a 555 dr, and you will hardly say that you prefer the bare Ndx2 with its stock internal ps.
I thinks there’s more going on here than straight forward hierarchy of cost. As I’ve mentioned, I’ve had several supplies up to and including the Phoenix Net. In fact the PN was the one that gave me the greatest problem with bass. There was just too much of it. It completely unbalanced the system.
I do agree with your comments on Naim’s power supplies and obviously the 555 is going to give the best performance but even with this there are quirks, like preferences for non-DR versions on the Ndac. For reasons I don’t fully understand the standard SMPS on my EE8 just gives me the perfect balance. Everything else I try sounds worse. I may talk to Chord if I go down to Bristol to see what they say and why they chose that particular SMPS?
My PhoenixNet gave also an inflated bass during maybe the first 100 hours. But this phenomenon disappeared after.
I don’t contradict your experience. Just related mine. The costiier lps gave much better results for me.
Hi @DiggyGun … just wondering … next week I’m having an appointment with my dealer for an extensive listening session with the Linn Selekt DSM Edition hub with a single power out cartridge. I’ve also asked to provide a Katalyst DAC.
My speakers are Dynaudio Special 40’s, so not bi-wireable, hence the single power-out module.
Do you expect an Organik DAC to have a large impact?
It does, especially when paired (as all new units are now) with the Utopik PSU.
I run a Katalyst DAC on mine with a Stereo Line Out Cartridge currently, in to a 200 Series NAP 250.
If you can budget for an Organik DAC it’s a worthy upgrade.
I’ve put back the original stock Chord EE8 SMPS back into the system powering the EE8 switch.
It’s been running about a week now and, to be honest there is very little difference between this and the iFI iPower Elite SMPS.
There is a difference but not what I’d consider an improvement. Consequently, a change is not enough to justify the spending of £299. I had used it with the supplied mains lead and a Chord Shawline that I had. This was a bit better in that there was a bit more clarity. But again, that’s another £250
Admittedly, the build quality of the iFI is excellent and the packaging presentation is also very good.
This may work very well on some kit. But not for me this time and it will now go back to the dealer under their 30 day refund policy. I can also move on the Chord Shawline mains cable.
I’ve no regrets about trying this iFI SMPS out as this is a fun part of our hobby, testing kit to see if it makes an improvement or not. All it’s cost me is a bit of time, some listening to some good music and some return postage for a couple of weeks testing.
I’ve tried a couple of different power supplies with the EE8, so I’ll leave it all alone now and continue to enjoy the Jazz.
On a final note, I think that Chord has made an excellent network switch with the EE8, including the supplied SMPS