Naim cables - £7255 - Shock!

Hi-Fi Corner
41

£10,000 for pieces of wire?

You may find this quote interesting;

"The mains cables from the consumer unit/fuse box in the house are fixed and will always be bog standard electrical wiring. Certainly not some ‘awesome’ gold plated, super treated fantastical cabling.

If you could by-pass the need for a wall socket, plug and mains lead to your hifi equipment and directly wire everything into the mains … you would be connecting to bog standard electric wiring.

As such, how can adding some kind of esoteric cable and wall socket for the last metre or so, possibly “improve’” all that existing bog standard wiring in the walls (which can’t be changed)?

The analogy I would draw, is where we accept that an amplifier and speaker cannot improve the original signal and information, so the source is always first. In this case, the house wiring is the source … so a flashy mains lead can’t possibly improve the mains electrical supply!

Sorry to sound dismissive, but it doesn’t seem logical and any electrician (which I am not) would probably say that it will make absolutely no difference.

I do, however, accept that a separate spur and consumer unit for the hifi does make a difference … by avoiding any pops/clicks and noises with refrigerators switching etc; if on the same circuit.

I’m sure that musicians and recording studios don’t use special wires to get the best sound. If the wires made a big difference, then they would use them on their kit."

I’m sure £10,000 could perhaps be spent more wisely. Seems like having a Louis Vitton handbag, when a perfectly good and far less expensive product will do exactly the same job.

Yes it may be 1-2% better … but at what cost and can everyone hear the difference.

Reminds me of “The Emperor’s Clothes” written by Danish author Hans Christian Andersen, about two weavers who promise the emperor a new suit of clothes that they say is invisible to those who are unfit for their positions, stupid, or incompetent – while in reality, they make no clothes at all, making everyone believe the clothes are invisible to them. When the emperor parades before his subjects in his new “clothes”, no one dares to say that they do not see any suit of clothes on him for fear that they will be seen as stupid. Finally a child cries out, “But he isn’t wearing anything at all!”

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42

Wonder if you’ll be as wowed with SL spkr cables as I was, and the HiLine IC…I found both quite a step up (from TQB2 spkr cables, and standard Naim IC).

You’re lucky to have such a cool dealer!

43

We shall see and yes the retailer does me good.

44

I believe the idea behind the power line cables is to minimise electrical noise from entering the system from electronics and Wi-Fi signals from items such as broadband, mobile phones etc. So basically trying to minimise rfi and electromagnetic interference entering the system, remember bits of cable act as aerials. The ideal would be to supplement the power system with a good power conditioner, something like an Audioquest Niagara 1200 or 5000, Isotek or something similar. I will see if it makes any difference to my system but on the £10k cost I certainly would not be paying that. I already have Chord Signature speaker cable so wouldn’t change to SL cable, but I will have a listen to it to see if it is different. As to the Powerline or SL interconnects I can get 50% off Naim accessories, which includes cables so that would make it a little less expensive lol.

It all gives me something to play with in these times of Coronavirus and self isolation.

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45

@Gazza did the SL interconnects and speaker cable not sound better enough commensurate with their price tag or did they in general not sound as good as what you have ?

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46

If you are happy with signature speaker cable and you are keen to experiment, I’d suggest trying out a set of sarum cables - I made this change and really enjoyed the wholistic improvement in sound quality. I bought mine second hand from another forum member who moved on to music cables.

Peter

47

I think its room related. I tested a number of cable interconnects, including all the SL ones separately. This did not work. So i tried a full loom, after 2 weeks, i pulled it, the old standard cables sounded fine…not £8 k short…or even £1k short. It was not about the money as i do not do a serious demo of hifi that i cannot afford. My listening is mainly of an evening. The backdrop to the sofa is an 18 foot glass window ,of an evening the curtains are closed and the room dynamics change. The Kudos cable is more forward in the mid range and high, and it sounds better to my ears than SL or NACA5.

48

Good for you …take care not to be swayed into investing in something that you don’t need :grinning:

Also, I’m sure that all the wiring in the house (walls) etc is equally exposed to any existing electrical noise.

49

That is not my understanding. All Naim mains cables are unshielded. The fancy plugs on each end are designed to mechanically decouple the cable from the box it’s connected to.

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50

I recently did a similar home demo but with a MusicWorks Reflex Ultra G3 block instead of the powerlines. To my ears, and in the context of my system (very similar), the SL speaker cable had the greatest impact. That will be my first fancy cable upgrade but I think I’ll move to 552 before swanky cables.

I’m interested to read your findings in the coming days :slight_smile:

51

Who is that quote from?

52

Any update? Due to the lockdown I may find some time to switch the £4,050 worth of Chord cables in my main system to the standard Naim interconnects and NACA5 soon. Although I have made numerous comparisons between the standard Naim and aftermarket cables previously, I have more reason to repeat the exercise as I’ve recently switched to a different speaker.

53

No significant update yet, have only (briefly) switched the connections between the NDX 2 and the 252 at the moment going between the SL, Hi Line and standard cables. My feeling for want of a better response is that the SL cable sounds more vibrant / alive I think but when you switch between cables your (my) audio memory quickly fades re the subtleties of the music being played because all of the cables sound pretty good to be honest. I think I need to leave the SL in for a while and then switch out to see what the other cables lack re musicality. I have also switched back my speaker cables back to my original Chord Signatures from the SL cables as I would not be planning on changing them, to be honest they sound very similar anyway.

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54

It reminds me of the guy who upgraded his car from a humble Suzuki to a Jaguar and then is shocked to learn how much they charge for their floor matts…

No personal experience (aside from listening to) in these esoteric matters. However, common sense says that after spending so much dough perhaps it is time to just enjoy the new system as it is. Cable matters can wait.

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55

Jaguar to BMW in my case and no I’m not shocked, they are both expensive and so are NAIM cables lol. I like playing with the tech so why not try different cables, I have the time as we go into lock down. Yes my system sounded great before, I just wanted to see if the expensive cables vs the standard did actually make a perceivable difference, at the moment it is a maybe but the jury is out. :grin:

56

I replaced all my Naim Powerlines with Ansuz A2 products and didn’t hear anything really. Then I just recently replaced those with Ansuz C2, and a matching C2 ac block. (The US distributor was able to offer a very good deal.) This is the first time I’ve actually “heard” ac products. A not subtle increase in bass extension and overall ‘presence’ in the music. The amp’s (300DR) ability to drive the speakers seems significantly improved; more than power cables should be able to improve. But I’m just reporting what I hear.

57

ATC pre amp balanced output to active ATC40’s
Just replaced my 20 years old (yes 20) Belden studio microphone cable interconnect leads - originally supplied by ATC, with Canare L4E6S star quad balanced cable – XLR female to XLR male Neutrik connectors.

Cost about $200 here in New Zealand … no need for fancy esoteric stuff and I note that Mark Grant also has the very same cables.

Sorry guys but I really think sometimes it’s a case of Emperors Clothes.

However, if you are absolutely flushed with cash and money is no object and you have absolutely nothing else which takes priority, then I guess $10K is not an issue.

Keep safe in these trying times :smiley:

… and yes I do have Naim sources and fully respect their equipment. I personally just think active is the better approach for speakers IMHO … you can always use your Naim pre amp too!

58

When I first got into audio, you could buy a LP12/Grace/Supex/32/NAPS/NAXO/3xNAP250 and a pair of PMS Isobariks for under half of the list price of the SL loom. They came with free cables and dealer installation too!
Has inflation REALLY gone up that much in 40-odd years?

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59

It’s not that long ago I found receipts for my 42.5/HiCap/140. I think my HiLine and 3 PowerLines cost more, at secondhand prices no less. :flushed:

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60

Well i am a great believer that if you can’t hear any difference then thats probably because there isn’t one, or certainly one that you can’t hear.
Remember we are only talking about a cable thats 1m long and so unless you are using a really poor cable, the difference is going to only be slight anyway, and then the wire changes once again once inside the pre amp and again amp.
Most off it is mind games, as i partially like the one, i have moved my boxes 2mm on my glass shelves and the difference is night and day lol, utter rubbish. To think to start off it makes a difference and then the human hearing thats got no chance.
The biggest difference to sound and then its so slight is the hiline plug as due to its design it needs to be plugged in 100% correctly so the floating pins are right.
But as always if you or anyone is happy with whatever you are using or about to buy, then fine and i am sure you’re hifi dealer will be more than happy to take your money.

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