Naim Discontinue Active Systems..?

Indeed, and other solutions (my own preference is digital - and I did compare my modified inexpensive Behringer digital AXO with the ATC analogue unit and was hard pressed to tell them apart, with the added fkexibility of the digital one. But I think (guessing) that for Naim systems the SNAXO connects in more easily between pre and power amps?

@NeilS And Allaes?

Yes, and Allaes.

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As Richard says, with Allaes included. At one time I used my SNAXO 242 universally for my IBL, Allaes, SBL, SL2, I no longer have these Naim speakers which I loved, but storage space had become important; I still have the Snaxo 242. I did a test of the Snaxo 242 with my Linn Sara and Linn Kan, (the passive crossovers are external); Sara and Kan play correctly in active but my Snaxo 242 is conceived more specifically for the Naim two-way speakers. I would have to see about a modification of the 242 for the Linn; I hesitate for the transformation, unless it is not important, with the possibility of going back without difficulty (few components to move?) to the original Naim Snaxo 242.
Perhaps NeilS could exchange some advice?

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The Naim NAXO (not SNAXO) was certainly designed for use with Linn speakers, AFAIK… :thinking:

I will need to look into this for you, as I don’t have that info in my head! There was definitely a Naxo version for Sara/Kan, but I’m not sure on the Snaxo or Snaxo242.

Regards
Neil.

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Thanks NeilS.
Indeed, the first Naxo were designed for the Linn Sara and Iso PMS. Around 1986, there were the Naxo dedicated for the SBL, and IBL. The Snaxo arrived around 1995 with the Scap. For Linn speakers, it became necessary to mention to Naim the crossover for Linn Sara or PMS. My Isobarik PMSs have a Snaxo 3-6 crossover tuned by Naim.
The Scanspeak tweeters remain the same on both Naim and Linn speakers,
The Naim and Linn mid/bass drivers are different.

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The statement as quoted at the start of this thread is that Naim are discontinuing all active systems. Discussion has than focused on just that. However, the words as quoted don’t say they won’t make more, and could simply mean that past systems are ending = end of SNAXO, with something to come to replace.

If the separates approach were to be supported, my suggested better approach in an earlier post here might be something to look forward to. However Naim’s release today of a teasing video about something new from Naim and Focal, linked or combined, with an image that appears to show a large box (or multiple boxes) of electronics in the base of a Focal speaker suggests that new active approach for Naim will be providing the amplification in a Focal active speaker.

That makes sense in many ways, not least because Naim may have noticed the apparently rapid increase in popularity of ATC’s active speakers, displacing Naim power amps, and also the number of people expressing desire for “downsizing”, usually meaning number of boxes as opposed to size per se, even if these groups are in the minority.

On the negative side, if only done with Focal speakers (and Naim is probably not in a position to partner with any other), it removes the flexibility of choosing a speaker that best suits the individual, or from a different angle it would make Naim driven active only available to those for whom the Focal character fits their needs. However there might still be a potential for Naim to introduce a new replacement for SNAXO, digital and with user-tailorable crossover frequencies, roll-off slopes, phase and levels.

I’m fairly sure that the regular SNAXO 2-4 and 242 could be used on the old Linn Kan and Sara two-ways as well. Optimal levels might be slightly different though. Someone like Jason G at Naim would know best here.

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What about discontinuing NACA5? Is everyone going to be sad about those lovely long 10m runs of stiff speaker cable? I guess it will happen at some stage if Naim and Focal come up with active speakers a la ATC😉

Haha. That assumes Naim stop making separate amplifiers. The thing their reputation rests on more than anything else. No Naim amps, no Naim shortly after.

I don’t see it happening. Thankfully. But OTOH, I don’t have a crystal ball. Stranger things have happened.

I don’t really see it like that. I have a vision of Focal speakers (the new active ones if they ever materialise) looking a bit like Frankenstein’s aluminium toe cap toroidal boots with possibly the same separation with the speakers sitting on top but decoupled to avoid microphonic issues. Possibly similar looks but clunkier than a living voice speaker. Maybe they will still find a continued market for the blessed NACA5 a bit like the SL2 passive crossover.

Yes Richard. I used my Snaxo 242 adapted for my SL2, I also tried the 242 in active on Linn Kan and Sara; there was no problem of functioning, except perhaps to make some modifications of balance (some resistances and capacities) on the medium/bass part ?

The Snaxo needs to be adjusted with some components to suit Linn Kan, makes a big difference.

Hardly surprising as any XO has to cross over at the correct frequency, and have the right cutoff slopes, also possibly phase shift/time delay loom to get the best out out of a speaker, and different drivers, even the same in a different design of box, are likely to need different settings, hence the need for tailoring. I believe SNAXO natively has 3rd order (18dB/octave) crossover slopes, I doubt that can bd increased to 4th octave, and I don’t know whether they ever reduce. An advantage of many digital crossovers these days is that you can select what slope you want for each crossover point, and you can even modify the characteristics (e.g. Linkwitz-Riley, Butterworth).

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Snaxo 2-4 and 242 are active for 2-way speakers such as SBL-SL2. But can also be used for Linn Kan and Sara. These 4 speakers have Scanpeaks with the same characteristics. The crossover hinge is in the 3khz range; for the Linn speakers probably some components have to be modified on the Bass/Medium part of the Naim Snaxo to adapt the crossover region? But I had no problems with the Kan and Sara HP without the modification on the 242.
With a Snaxo 3-6 or 362 in 3 ways for Naim DBL or NBL, the transformation for active Linn PMS speakers is more complex, modifications on the filtering part of the bass speakers and for the midrange speakers. My Snaxo 3-6 was returned to the factory to adjust the operation with Linn PMS.

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Once in a while I switch from my DBLs and run Kans on the back of my 500. Quite fun actually :blush:

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Wow, i bet !

Technically, naim or probably more so focal did not discontinue active systems per se but just stopped producing active cross overs. In effect though they have done nothing less than killed an elite upgrade path for the daring and not so fainthearted naim nuts. Nobody just walks into a shop and orders an active rig from scratch. Supposedly it’s still feasible to circumvent the expected unavailability of naim snaxos with active cross overs from other manufacturers. It also may be possible to successfully explore a growing s/h market -pun intended- and just maybe naim would still unadmittedly build some on special customer order, which quite honestly I rather doubt. One can only speculate what’s the reason behind the recent discontinuation, but for sure big active systems were never for everybody’s taste and sure never big sellers. Soundwise unsurpassed, yes it’s really that addictively involving, a huge box count and the overall complexity of such systems to babysit always had a rather prohibitive effect on the popularity of active rigs including a rather low WAF. They are and always have been baby dinosaurs in the living room. Another issue could be increased economic awareness with people becoming less willing to leave a 15+ box count system running 24/7 effecting quite substantial energy bills and contributing to climate change. So maybe it really is mostly for economic reasons/unattractiveness that naim decided to finally ditch active cross overs because the demand war dying anyway. But maybe I dare say, naim was pressured to discontinue snaxos because focal couldn’t stand to support upgrade paths with non focal third party speakers that just blow their own stuff out of the water somewhere into the weeds. So what’s dying is not just active systems but also the aspiration for the best possible music reproduction detached from a simple minded accountants cash cow mentality and thus jeopardizing if not to say sacrificing one of naims biggest assets, long term/lifelong customer loyalty.

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You could be right charlie, but also these days speakers, amplifiers, have moved on so much in 30 plus years, that gains once made by going active aren’t really there, as long as you aren’t trying to run old naim speakers still.
Plus not many speakers these days you can even run in active mode