Naim streamers slow

Is it just me or are the Naim streamers’ software slow in responding? The nova takes sometimes up to ten second before showing the artwork and at least 1 second to play the next track. Also the app takes a couple seconds always before it’s fully in sync with the streamer. My ND5XS2 has the same issue.
My Node 2i is lightning fast with searches and responds instantly when I open the app. This is quite rediculous if you consider the price difference between these products.
All products are connected through Ethernet.

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Slight delay can be due to our streaming platform being designed to buffer streamed music (when played from within our App) for a more robust, higher-quality experience. As our Software Director, Steve Harris, explained recently:

  • Proper buffering - We buffer up to 50MB of data at a time so very robust from internet data fluctuations. The average 16/44.1kHz track is fully loaded within 15secs, hence its playback from RAM buffer.
  • Efficient - near enough the same as playing a native 192kHz FLAC file from a NAS.
  • Runs from the internal streamers Play Queue. Once the app has loaded in the play queue the streamer just gets on with it independent from the app / things in the cloud etc.

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I see the same behavior with the Nova (didn’t try the NDX2 yet). It was much worse for me with the previous app version, but after the September app update and afterwards a reset in the app this was improved and is now exactly like you described. I talked to Naim support while it was worse, but when it improved to the current behavior they seemed satisfied, so this is probably expected.

My network is plenty fast and the BluOS app and devices that I used previously (both a Blusound Node and a NAD C658 streamer/pre) always reacted instantly.

I don’t see what this would have to do with buffering - certainly not the app needing 5 seconds to become responsive after waking up the screen. And if the unit buffered a track it can still switch to a new one if I tell it. If it is implemented to completely fill the buffer before starting to play, this would be a bit of a strange choice. Also, I just switched from a 50 Mbit to a 250 Mbit/s downlink and it doesn’t seem to make much difference if any

I tried on Android and also borrowed the dealer’s iPad Mini to compare. No difference neither in my network nor the dealer’s. The dealer has the “keep connected” setting enabled on the app, which helps but then the screen stays on when the app is in the foreground, which drains the battery of the tablet in a day

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It’s a pity that a €5K device isn’t on par, in terms of responsiveness, with a €500 device…

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Agree!

I got used to it now and it actually works fine for me if you give it the time to get responsive. But if you don’t know and try to move the volume slider more than once while it is unresponsive, it leads to random volume changes after it does become responsive, including ear-shatteringly loud (or killing the speakers… I know there is a max. volume setting, but it is not required). It seems that the app, after it is responsive, applies the screen coordinates and movement of each of the attempts that were made while it was unresponsive.

Personally, I grew to like it a bit after getting used to it, using the app feels a bit like turning on a 555PS, not to be taken lightly. But this is an acquired taste :slight_smile: Normal people probably expect different

Sorry, I didn’t realise you meant delay with App itself - copying in my colleague @tomvamos

Hi there, this ‘lag’ sounds a bit network-y. Could you contact Support on support@naimaudio.com please. They’ll be able to run some diagnostics and hopefully help out.

I already did. They also said so but my network is simple (a few devices, one user and therefore always only one device actually using data except for low level background stuff). We ran a network scan which picked up a few devices apparently from the router’s local DNS, as at the time of the scan they were not actually present. After I clarified this and explained all of the devices in the scan, we agreed that this was normal (two tablets, a phone, a fireTV, a Sky receiver, a Playstation, a robo vacuum, a switch, a router, the Nova. Only one tablet actively in use, other stuff off or sleeping. Router > switch > Nova with high quality, new cables).

As mentioned above, I started support contact because it was unbearable, delays were 30 seconds. This was fixed by an app reset after the September app update, but the delays of a few seconds remained, in particular after waking the tablet screen from sleep. The tablet is never more than 5 meters from the router which is also the wifi AP.

After this I changed the internet connection to 250 Mbit/s down (approx 40 up, and 20 ms ping time). The router is now a well regarded one (Fritzbox. However, previously it was Vodafone’s standard cable router which is probably in hundreds of thousands of German homes.) The tablet now always connects reliably with 5GHz and wifi a.c at around 800 Mbit. No significant change if any

I stream Netflix HD and everything else, BluOS had not a single such problem in months even before upgrading the network.

As mentioned, same on Android 10 and iOS, and I see the same behavior when going to the dealer and trying in his network

Thanks @Suedkiez for this detailed response. And an apology. I thought I had replied to @Hifi_Naim_CNNL who I would still encourage to contact support@naimaudio.com

Nevertheless, I’m pleased to hear you are having an improved, albeit not perfect experience.

Apologies for confusion, you did reply to @Hifi_Naim_CNNL and not to me. It is just that he seems to see the exact same behavior as I do now, and based on my result with support, I came away with the impression that the behavior I am seeing now is the expected one. Plus when I contacted them the first suspicion was also “looks network-ey”, but definitely it is not the case.

And yes, it is better after the reset, and like I said I kinda came to like the slowness. But in reality it is not really ok because you can probably still destroy your speakers just by trying several times to change volume while it is not responsive after the screen wakeup.

Edit: When I asked the dealer, they shrugged their shoulders and said more or less “oh well, the Naim app, what can you do”. If I read the app reviews on Google Play I get stomach ache (I am a software tester and supporter by trade, so it hurts double). There are countless ones that read like the same responsiveness issues an people are not happy there, to put it politely

I assure you it doesn’t go unnoticed.

:+1:

Does operating the streamer from Roon make it better? Faster?

With my old streamer I have maybe 3 seconds delay when I click on a new track.
Sometimes it doesn’t respond, so I have to click again.
But it doesn’t bother me.

On all three of my Naim streamers (272,Atom and gen 1 Muso) I often have to press play at least twice sometimes more, especially when opening the app for the first time each day. There’s definitely a delay, it’s not a huge problem but it can be a little annoying at times. Like others have mentioned the volume can be worrying, I make a point of not touching it till something starts to play. I don’t believe it’s network as my stuff is wired and the iPad/iPhone run on a “excellent” internal wi fi network.

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The poor responsiveness twixt app and streamer has been constant source of frustration for me. Even pressing the ‘Pause’ symbol on the app does not have an immediate effect, which causes me to press for a second time meaning the music is briefly paused and then resumed which was not my intent. It really can be maddening.

Consequently, I have relegated the NDX 2 to operating solely as a DAC with a Lindemann Limetree Bridge connected to the coaxial digital input on the NDX 2 for the streaming functionality. The Lindemann app and hardware are very well integrated with an instantaneous response to screen taps, so I am confident that the problems with the Naim app cannot be attributed to a network problem.

So; I have a streaming system that works, but at much greater expense than I had planned due to the additional purchase of the Limetree Bridge and a BOTW leanr power supply.

The NDX 2 is a very good DAC; certainly an improvement on the Chord Qutest. But the cost differential of 5300 vs 1195 GBP cannot be ignored and I regret buying the NDX 2.

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Me too, though getting used to it. I have learned that it actually works now, so I usually just press it and let it do its thing. Even if the command to and reaction by the head unit were to take a few seconds, at least the app should give immediate feedback.

But I agree that it can still be maddening. If the phone rings and I need it silent now, I still reach for the remote

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Same here

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It’s seems it’s a problem with all apps and computers, just went to fire up my brand new Mac and it won’t connect to the mouse. My work pc often struggles to start some mornings and programs often stick.

Maybe we’ve all become a little less patient.