Hello to everyone.
I spoke with my dealer earlier this morning.
He informed me he got a used Naim Superline in great condition nearly 10 years old.
If i decide to buy it he is willing to sell it for about 2.000€.
My concern is that it has 10 years of use on it’s back.
What do you guys think?
Is it a good deal/investment?
I currently use the goldnote ph-1 phono preamp & psu-1 with sumiko amethyst.
If i move to the Superline i will switch cartridge probably the Phasemation pp-200.
Waiting for your thoughs-thank you
Hello to everyone.
I have the superline phono and I must say it’s fantastic
However you should be aware that to get the maximum sound quality out of it you really need the naim supercap DR Power supply , and that’s when it starts to get expensive
It’s good with the naim hicapdr PS but the supercap really brings it into another league.
I’m not sure about price on a 10 year old one , I’m thinking is 2,000 euro about 50% of the new price ?
Are you unhappy with your current setup or just looking for a change?
Are you looking to buy a PSU, I think you can power it from the SN but not sure?
You can, yes.
Performance does get even better though when you have a dedicated Hicap on the Supernait, and better still when can dedicate a power supply to the Superline. It’s well worth reading the various reviews on the Superline done by Hifi Critic (these should be downloadable from the Naim website and elsewhere online), which gives some impressions of how performance develops when you move through the PSU options.
At 10Y’s old, to the best of my knowledge it’s due a service – and if not already done the price should reflect that. And if not already done, I’d insist the dealer arranges this.
And best check what loading plugs (primarily resistance) will suit your cartridge e.g. several Dynavector cartridges play best with a 453 resistance (453R) plug added, which isn’t supplied with the unit.
I love my SuperLine but I think 2K is a bit on the high side for a 10 year old one. On the other hand, it’s from a dealer so comes with some reassurance. Mine was about 15 years old and I paid about 1.4 K € also from my dealer. At the time my dealer inquired in detail with Focal-Naim Germany about servicing (and I really wanted to so we asked more than once) and they were adamant that there was no need, so I didn’t. It sounds great.
Servicing it at some point is a good idea but I wouldn’t suggest it’s ultra-urgent or a reason not to buy at a good (but not amazing) price. I reckoned that serving my power amps and supplies had more impact - probably more tired capacitors.
For power, I’d agree that a Supercap is audibly better than a Hicap, and expect the Hicap beats power from the pre-amp Aux. However, there are some on this form who are very happy to use the Aux option and reckon only a move to a supercap would be an upgrade.
Box count and cost matter. Some on this site will say that a Superline deserves a Supercap to power it, but would probably also say that it really needs a 282/Hicap/250 or better too. FWIW, I agree that the Superline can justify and benefit from better amplification. However, replacing one box can start a cascade, which may well be unnecessary for you - the Superline is very good no matter how you power it, and the same applies to your existing amp.
If vinyl is a major source, I’d say get the Superline, get the loading plug stuff right for your cartridge (lots of people here will help but do can just using your ears), and then see if you want to go further.
I’m not sure a £2,800 (new price) phono stage makes sense with a £1,300 turntable. It all starts with the deck, which is the thing I’d be looking to improve significantly.
By the end of the year i am going to move to a much better tt.
The superline just came up suddenly.
Once again HH you’re using price as the comparator. I would imagine the OP would still get a very considerable improvement and those Techie decks can run very good cartridges.
Fair point @hungryhalibut though that is a slightly different question. I suspect that, as the PS comments suggest, getting a Superline will not be the last upgrade in this case.
The plan is to move from:
- Technics 1210gr to 1210g or 1210gae(if i manage to find one)
- Goldnote ph-1 to Goldnote ph-10 or Clearaudio Basic v2
- Sumiko Amethyst to Phasemation pp-200
The superline was & still is out of plan…
Purely as a data point, I run an moderately ok, but old TT, £600 it cost me back in '92, albeit serviced and generally well maintained, into a XS3 amp, and just bought a c. £1.4k phono stage & PSU (£700 second hand), it made a massive difference over the inbuilt XS3 stage and a Stageline N.
I guess the real world alternative would have been sell my TT (£600 ish is probably broadly realistic) plus £700, gets me to 2nd hand P8 money, I’m not entirely sure the difference would have been an order of magnitude better than I just experienced. I never tried it, and the phono stage update was a gamble, but I’m very very happy at the difference it made.
It was seeing a Superline sell for just over £1000 2nd hand that got me thinking about phono stage updates actually. My logic was that I could run it off aux2 to start with and go from there. If the journey doesn’t end with the first step then I’m not sure it matters which order you do things in, as long as there isn’t a massive incompatibility with the upgrades as you go. In the end I decided against the Superline as I didn’t want the commitment to MC, but I think it would still be a great option, and isn’t permanently discounted.
I guess (again!) having a reasoned plan is the main thing, if the end point means an upgraded TT, arm, cart and phono stage, I’m not entirely sure the order makes a huge difference? When I decide on a new TT I’ll let you know though, I’ll probably still have both TTs and three phono stages to swap between X)
I think €2k is a bit steep to be honest, the dealer source really only gives comfort for a fault IMO, it says nothing about the proximity to requiring a service (sounds like that’s not due for a couple of years at least - something tells me it’s 12 year intervals?)
Well as mentioned, I was told in clear terms by Focal-Naim Germany that a service was not necessary for my 15 year old one. I really tried to convince them that I would prefer it serviced
Says 12-15 years for newer black products after 2000. I’m sure it’s been discussed on here recently too, but that link seems fairly clear!?
I know that article. All I can say is that I and my dealer told F-N Germany IIRC three times that I would really like to have the SL serviced, just because everything else in my system was new. I think I even pointed out the usual recommended intervals, and my dealer (and it’s a pretty big and long-term Naim dealer in Germany) even phoned up their regular contact on my request, and IIRC we told him that even if it’s not strictly necessary I’d like to pay them just to check. We were told every time that REALLY there is no need.
(Maybe worth adding that the provenance and performance of this particular SL was known being the dealer demo unit during all its life)
Sounds absolutely lovely, anyway. The previous Aria was no contest
Yeah, sorry, I should have known not to question, I’ve been around here long enough to know you’d have checked thoroughly
Did you ever get any idea what the recommended interval would be? I mean would you go 20 years?
Good news for the OP though, 10 years isn’t a warning that a service is due on the one they are considering.
At first I was even a bit annoyed by it, you know, as in “why won’t you just take my money and give me peace of mind”, and so I was being a bit of a pain in the ass about it. I even asked Naim UK support about it in a general way (“15 year old SL, what about service?”) and their answer was (as often) a bit non-committal, as in “you can have it serviced”. And the third time with their contact person the dealer also pointed that out (“customer asked Naim UK, …”) but they repeated something like “we really mean it’s not necessary”.
But yes, that was my thought as well, it may be fine now but all the other kit is new, will the SL do another 12 years until the other stuff goes to service? But after 3 times of being a pain I didn’t really see a way to make them indulge me And despite my initial annoyance, on reflection I find it pretty cool that they didn’t just bag the money.
As everything has sounded so lovely ever since, I have learned to relax about it, not even the logo bleed is buggin’ me If the SL ever starts sounding off compared to the NDX2, it will be serviced, until then I guess I am content, we will see how long it lasts
If the price is right for you, and you have the desire for a better turntable too, go fo it!
(I quite fancy one on Aux2 of my 152XS.)
I agree, and for only 800 off list I’d just buy a new one. It should be half-list at 10 years old.