Thank you Richard. That has answered a couple of my question. Cheers for that
It would most certainly be a great help if you were to keep posting about your understanding of the ci 102. Both for myself and many others on this learning curve.
You asked where i am up to with regards to my understanding of this amp and i will try to explain.
I have owned it for a fortight and without any documentation on it i think it has been a bit frustrating….until you offered help.
I wanted a one box solution and after showing me the new Wiim all in one box the dealer turned to this ci 102 unit knowing i was an existing Naim owner/customer and had been for 35 years.
It was mentioned early on the 102 was similar in operation to the wiim. It was also thought the 102 could do it’s own room correction as per the Wiim. Hence the offer of a mic with the deal…..which of course was never to be.
After paying for the amp and bringing it home the realisation dawned it was nothing in the slightest like the wiim for home tweaking.
I demo’d 5 sets of speakers with this. 4 sets on dealer reccomendation. Not one of them Focal. Seems strange now in hindsight but i was green, as was dealer with this kit.
One thing i would like to ask you is your thoughts on is this much vaunted “damage can occur”
How do wiim sell their gear by the thousands, complete with a compehensive parametric equaliser. It will have thousands of people’s fingers dragging the graphs and maps all over the place….yet no mention of speaker damage
As it stands at this moment. I have assigned a Focal speaker preset to amp with my speakers roughly matching the specs of the Focals. Sounds very nice. 2 of my filters are set to low shelf with one on high shelf. The parametric setting on one was used to raise treble. This was after a chat with Naim help desk on day 2.
Thank you telling me and Richard for posting the further intructions.
I have since read all of what was there.
It did answer my questions re the lights on facia.
With that i can say amp seems happy with settings. The 1 and 2 digit lights stay solid green with no warning signs and amp stays cold to luke warm. Only thing i would say is the connectivity light(next to reset pin hole) is more pink than white when connected but i assume this is just bleed through from the orangy/red light it switches from when connected?
As for being able to save settings. I am not sure making new projects is the answer. I stand to be corrected…..I have tried
At the end of the day i truly feel if Naim are allowing dealers to sell this amp to customers as a tradititional living room amp, often paired with non focal speakers then we should have a “laymens terms” set of instuctions with it. Even if it just gave a chart of various speaker specs and what are the safe limits for them. This guesswork is daft.
As an aside i spoke to another dealer who was offering a package of ci 102 plus speakers (not focal) as many do.
I was going to p/x my old olive system with him. A deal could not be struck. He cited there was no money in the ci 102..the profit was in the install. Hmmmm.
Again thank you for your thoughts and help. I do hope you can post more
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Hi TheOlivehasgone,
Happy to provide input. Maybe others might join in with observations of the Naim CI-102 (and maybe the Wiim Pro Plus)?
However, please permit me bit of digression on your thread.
I would like to address your following observation:-
I have experienced quite a bit of frustration with HiFi retailers over the last 25 years. The problems have come about because either the original equipment manufacturer is not forthcoming with trustworthy responses to identified issues (so the retailer is left in the difficult position of handling customer frustration). Or, alternatively, when customer identifies a problem (with kit purchased) the default response from the retailer is to try to ‘upsell’ their way out of the problem!
Nevertheless, everyone has to make a living and it is the case that the Naim CI-102 is a very capable product at a very competitive price point.
For example, if a customer wants to have a multi-speaker or even multi-room fit out (where the retailer does all the work of system concept and design, component selections and installation), the return on time invested by the retailer is sufficiently financially rewarding.
For a classic two channel stereo system (using Naim CI-102) there is hardly any margin for the retailer if the customer conversation trends to the point of “come and calibrate my room please”. The room calibration process would simply take too much time and effort for the retailer.
My personal view is that this problem is not unique to NAIM products - it affects all complex products claiming to address Room Acoustics problems.
More information on specifically addressing your situation coming in my next post.
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In all fairness i would not dream of asking a dealer to come and set it up. Toolate for that and not my style anyway.
I bought the amp under the assumption a mic could be connected and a room correction sweep could be carried out, hence the promise of a mic with the kit.
My point once more is if this should be sold as a conventional amp by dealers who maybe don’t have a grasp of the product any more than the customer does?
If i was told up front you basically need to be a sound engineer to use it……and without any meaningful instructions with it i may have had second thoughts.
At the end of the day it is what it is. I own it and that is that.
I really now just need to learn the basics on it to “have a play” with it. That is part of the fun after all
Again it is with chaps like you willing to give info on it that i am very grateful.
Thank you once more and look forward to further posts from you that delve maybe a bit deeper in to the system of the ci 102.
Much appreciated as always.
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Great to have your response, let’s get going…
I have been trying to think what your issue might be with recovering settings you have created…
and
I think I may have had this issue as well. IIRC it was fixed by me adding an ethernet cable to the ethernet port on the CI-102 in addition to having all the antennas attached.
Do you have your CI-102 connected at the back with an ethernet cable on a network which the host computer running the Focal/Naim manager software is also present?
If you then follow the steps described from the beginning of the FN manual (link in the Richard Dane post number 15) that should enable you to successfully keep the CI-102 in the correct status for EQ etc. As I said previously, even though I do not have the CI-102 that I borrowed, I am still able to change the CI-102 settings and EQ/DSP parameters right now - but these would only be uploaded should the relevant device become connected again to my network.
My next post will be of a more general nature - giving my take and summary of the various Room Correction systems and approaches currently available in the market.
I guess you could more easily set up a quick ‘Room Correcting’ system using a Wiim Pro Plus, but IMO the technical specification of the audio signal handling and processing would be inferior to what you have purchased in the Naim CI-102.
I understand that one of the main benefits of the Naim CI-102 is the quality of the digital dynamic range and digital signal processing that has been designed into the architecture of the product. There was a post by the Naim designer regarding this a while back.
I plan to help over quite a few posts - so if you can stay with this dialogue it would be great…
Returning to an earlier question you had…
Next Question:
What do you desire (in sound terms) by adding gain at a given frequency or band by more than +6dB?
For those reading and not familiar with the CI-102, +6dB is a ‘limit’ on adding gain to the filters within the Configure Output parts of the Focal/Naim manager. In truth it is more complex than this, but the additional factors relate to the specifics of the filter type and the ‘Q’ being requested.
Below is an image illustrating the point that TheOlivehasgone has made…
Image Credit and Copyright: Focal/Naim
Note that the horizontal line shown in RED on the graph (at +6dB in this example) is shown temporarily, only appearing (and flashing) when trying to exceed the Gain parameter limit.
Thank you, working through various permutations, and the Ci102 does fit certain requirements.
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Hi @TheOlivehasgone,
How are you getting on with your Naim CI-102, do you still have it, or did you return it?
One month ago (in your first post) you had identified some of what was possible with the CI-102 …
I was beginning to share some of the tweaking which I had undertaken during my playing around with the device. Question: are you still interested?
@Ian2001 posted a week ago, perhaps there are others with Naim CI-102 who have questions.
This thread seems like a good place to discuss the more advanced features of the CI-102 and perhaps we could all share here?
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I look forward to reading of any experiences, my desire over the last seven or years has been to simplify my system.
The CI 102 has an HDMI input and a digital input plus streaming
When I started with my ND5XS2 I didn’t have a smartphone, and now I do . It is easier
My main idea 
is to split my system into two , with a serious system for night time listening and an “everyday” system for casual / TV usage.
Do I really need a Nait 50 for watching West Ham v Wolves?
Possibly looking 
the CI102 v Atom?
I feel the CI-102 is the way to go, it also depends on the speakers you have, etc. By the way a pity that the CI-102 does not have a USB input to play music from a hard drive.
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I have Harbeth P3ESR , they are never driven loudly (except on one unfortunate incident ) .
I think a weakness of the CI102 is that it only has one digital input , but I am only wanting a very basic system
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That’s an interesting match with the P3ESR. I wonder… How’s the soundstage, clarity and airiness?
I can understand why the CI-102 has been designed like that, yet I think the USB is a big missing point. I wonder if there’s a workaround so one doesn’t have to rely on a UPnP server. Surely with very few changes, it’d be a very complete piece of gear. Excellent both for beginners as well as for people looking for a simple yet nice sounding setup.
At the moment that is my plan to audition CI102 against Atom . I really don’t want to leave Naim
Naim has a special sonic signature, I get your point. I think speaker matching is key here as the CI-102 and Atom are very different. For instance you are not likely to use the Atom with power hungry speakers, on the other hand the CI-102 would be perfect for that. Also they have a different presentation. I find the Atom more refined (maybe?). Keep in mind I’ve only listened to it with Magnepan speakers so I might not be entirely correct. In the end both have their own pros and cons, so you need a test with your own speakers to get a proper conclusion.
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Thank you, my Harbeths are thought to be power hungry , but I go out of my way to keep the volume down.
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If it helps you, I tried the CI-102 with a pair of Totem Sky Towers, they are power hungry as well. Let me know your thoughts if you have the chance to test both the CI-102 and the Atom.
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Many apolgies for my absence from this thread for the past few weeks….thank you for the further post too.
We had a boiler fault at home and decided to replace as opposed to repair.
It was then decided to reposition the boiler whilst we were at it.
Things turned in to a major job affecting a few rooms and it took a good while to get everything straight again…never again
Anyway to answer your sensible question….yes i have kept the 102,albeit it has not been switched on since i was last on here.
Time for another try
To recap where we are….I paid upfront for the kit and had 2 weeks to return it.
That is how the dealer works as opposed to home demos.
As you know the amp was sold to me as a traditional amplifier to repace the clutter of my CDI,72,Hicap,250,SBL set up.
I had not heard of it or seen one before i was introduced to it in the shop.
I was in no way aware of its eq being very difficult to fathom as opposed to the wiim i was using with my old Naim kit. Neither was the dealer obviously.
I asked the dealer on numerous occasions to see if i could perhaps chat with his Naim rep…who i was told knew the system inside out.
No call came. On the last day of the trial period i called the dealer for the final time.
After info received on this thread i now knew it was nothing like a wiim to “play with”
I told dealer this and kept the amp on the promise a Naim rep would call shortly.
A month has passed now and not a dickie bird….ah well. I expected as much.
My biggest sadness here is not being able to correct things on its soundstage that trial and error could manage on the wiim.
I am now hoping months down the line when more people like me have been sold this as a traditional amp that videos on youtube start popping up.
It would be great just to see a video of a guy with ci 102 pairing it with a set of none focal speakers and starting from scratch to optimize the sound and match them up.
That would be enough for me…..i am not daft and would get the gist of it.
I honestly thought the promised chat with this Naim rep may have gone some way to enlighten me.
Despite suggestions here and thank you….i still don’t even know the simple/correct way to save settings for back to back testing. The “new project” feature surely can’t be the answer.
Maybe i should have returned it. However at 1300 quid i really could not have been bothered with the hassle.
More dismayed with the dealer than the amp if truth be told.
As i said a while back. It sounds great out of the box. Just a shame i know there is more to come but lost on how to do it.
Many thanks once more
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I hope that you won’t mind me saying that like yourself I have been user of Naim equipment since the days of Olive ( bless her)
The CI 102 does feature in my thinking for a possible system going forward, but after over three decades without any form of tone control I think of this as a possibly superfluous feature.
I am not sure if a Naim representative would be allowed to speak to a customer direct
Best wishes
Ian
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Thanks for your input Ian. Appreciated.
I concur also with your thoughts on old school Naim and no tone control etc.
I have been with Naim since early1990’s. Starting off with a humble Nait 3 and Intro speakers. Naims strategy worked on me and upgrades soon followed with switches between Black Naim and Olive unti my last system was put together.
I came to Naim from Technics, in the era i rated Technics pre and power amp combos the best.
I always missed that ability to twist that treble dial on the Naim….some tracks just need a bit of sparkle up top for me.
After going through many decent dacs i bought the little cheapo Wiim pro plus to see what the fuss was about last year.
Bingo….instead of hearing the sound the dac designer deemed great i could tune it to my own liking. I was sold on this method.
At the same time i knew the wife was now fed up with the “dust collector” olive kit in the house.
She’s been great about it for years but always was not happy about not being able to clean under or behind it without a major job dismantling it.
That’s when the “one box solution” came in to my mind.
The little Wiim was a game changer as a streamer and dac so i thought let’s step in to the modern world.
I was looking at other makes in the shop but then was steered towards the 102.
Naim sound, power packed and so sleek.
No brainer of a buy. It’s just i still can’t get my head around how it is being sold as a traditional amp/dac/streamer to none sound engineers like me with nothing more than basic instructions.
It was only on joining this forum i learned the true purpose of this amp and its complexity to “tune” after i bought it.
I was led to believe on purchase it was a lot more user friendly and not something you had to go to college for to get the best out of it
Smashing thing but zero back up for the simplest of questions.
One day the penny will drop
Cheers
Thanks for the update re your situation in your house - sorry to hear about your boiler.
I have scrolled through the whole thread again and I can see that you answered the questions I had previously asked re target room (size) - but perhaps not speaker positioning. I was beginning to ask those questions as I had an idea in mind - which we may still get to try.
However in most recent post I took particular note of this comment…
The input by SteveSky (here) and observations by Ian2001 (above) suggest that this product really DOES NOT need to be tweaked to work straight out of the box, although it can be ‘tweaked’…
Nevertheless, let’s get to some ‘tweaking’…
-
Have you got your Naim CI-102 connected with both antennas screwed in and an ethernet cable fitted in the back on the same network as a PC with the Focal/Naim Manager software?
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Can you please describe (or ideally show the screenshots) of the settings you have selected on your Wiim ProPlus RoomFit software app?
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When you provide the above RoomFit settings info, can you please explain why you have set these things in the particular way that you have?
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