Native Qobuz update

They replied almost immediately following my email from today. My problem with system automation relates to using Roon, and now they say they’ll get back to me post-haste, but don’t have an active Roon account for testing. I find that rather astonishing, given that using the new streamers as a Roon endpoint is a selling feature. It’s one of the main reasons I upgraded from ND5XS to NDX2.

I did two comparisons I’m very familiar with, but then I started getting handoff issues from the Naim app to Roon (Naim didn’t want to give up control) so I gave up with the comparisons and unplugged the Nova and went back to Roon.

What I did notice in my 2 comparisons between Naim app and Roon:

Sting’s My Songs LIVE version of “Fragile” (last track on the album) via Qobuz 24/44 HiRes… Sting almost starts the song, then stops and tunes up the nylon string guitar for a moment then starts the song. The nylon stringed guitar notes in the Naim app stood out sharp, dynamic, and robust sounding with air behind the instrument as to impart a greater sense of space. On Roon, the nylon guitar notes were less forward, less attack, and sounded generally thinner than in the Naim app.

Tears for Fears Seeds of Love “Woman in Chains” via Qobuz 16/44… Decay on reverb from the first snare hit has more body and depth when listening in the Naim app than in Roon. Opening bass riff more forward with that same sense of space.

These are only 2 examples - the differences between Roon and Naim on other tracks could be negligible and would probably not even be noticeable aside from doing a direct comparison between the 2 tracks. But these differences mentioned here were NOT hard to hear, they were clear differences between the 2 apps.

According to the Dan Mackta, managing director at Qobuz North America, they are using whatever master files the labels pass along to them, whether hires or lossless, and they will specify whether one is a remaster, etc… but there’s no real way to tell if, for example, it’s the 1985 version of a release or the 1991 remaster, or the 2013 remaster, etc.

My guess is that for an apples-to-apples comparison whatever Qobuz gets from the label is going to be the same digital master Tidal gets from the label. Of course with HiRes Qobuz vs Tidal MQA there’s no way to compare between the 2 because they are different file types etc.

I’m not sure I understand your comparisons. Are you using the same Qobuz source in each case, but just comparing their playback via Roon’s Qobuz integration vs the Naim app Qobuz integration? Or, are you comparing the Qobuz source to some other source for the same music? If that latter, I’m not really sure what your point is. The point of my comparison was to see whether it mattered – from a sound quality perspective – which Qobuz integration one uses (Roon vs Naim iOS app). My conclusion is they are essentially the same, and one should chose which user experience they prefer.

Correct, they are the same file being streamed from Innuos Zen MK III, and the comparison is either through the Naim iOS app versus the Roon app. From the limited comparisons I made, it did seem there was better fidelity when playing through the Naim iOS app versus through Roon.

OK. I was just comparing Qobuz integration specifically. It sounds the same using Roon (with the controller on an iPad) with the NDX2 as an endpoint vs. using Qobuz from the Naim app directly.

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Here’s a dilemma!

I thought I would check out the Qobuz catalogue for one of my favourite artists, the stupendous Amos Lee. I was excited to see that Qobuz has a 24 bit version of his Spirit album. Had a listen and compared it to my 16 bit CD rip, locally streamed. On this album the 24 bit Qobuz stream smashes it, which has not been the case on such comparisons on other albums.

But here is the kicker. There are a couple of Amos’ albums missing from the Qobuz catalogue which are there in their entirety on Tidal. Qobuz does have a couple of his EPs but this does not make up for the album omissions. This does call into question the breadth, and more particularly, the depth of the Qobuz catalogue.

Having said this, ‘Spirit’ is sounding bonkers good via 24 bit Qobuz.

Decision, decisions.

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I think you are addressing the real topic to decide. It’s a question of what do you find on the different services and what fits your needs most. The high res ability if of course an additional benefit. While for me it means I need to switch from hifi to studio on Qobuz…

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This is the issue with Qobuz. I have had Tidal and Qobuz together for over year after Roon added support for it. Last month I made the move to just use Qobuz, with two weeks I have Tidal again as I was coming up short on a lot of artists I was looking to add content from. So I have both and likely will keep both until Qobuz really expands its collection.

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The new platform has been programmed not to play anything by Bruce Springsteen.

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Is this a generally agreed finding?

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#1 sounds same #3 to me. #4 sounds same as #5 to me.

I can’t say for #2, since I have no real way to know that rips from from any of my CDs are the same as what I might get on Qobuz or TIDAL.

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I believe you can tell which master with the label inventory code/identifier. You can find this with Roon.
Yes there Is some media without such a code.

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Roon does show you the quality of the recording your looking at on the artwork from cd up to to dsd if you have it enabled so why does the hires logo matter so much in this case as it doesn’t give that level of info? Saying that I do think they have done a good job of laying it all out in the Naim app and it feels fluid to use. Although @Alley_Cat might be upset to not see his Purchases available in it.

It’s all about usability and choosing recordings. I like Opera for example and I will search out hidef over CD base quality if I can find it… with the Naim app it’s easier for me to sift… nice…
I am sure Roon will catch up shortly…

Nope I have found everything in Roon to be equal. If using the same master. I have always found Tidal lacking via Naims integration compared to Roon a little too harsh. Not really compared Qobuz yet but my ripped CDs have sounded the same via Roon or Asset on the Atom.

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Searching their catalogue if not in your library yes they need filters if you ask me to be able to do this. All the powerful search stuff is limited to what’s been added to the Roon library. Let’s hope they do.

But if you compare 24 bit hirez Amos lee downloaded album vs 24 bit streamed Qobuz online, perhaps the local Amos file would not be inferior ?

From what I read on most members, however not all agree, local files sound still a bit better vs Qobuz hirez online.
So I would put local streaming from uniticore or Melco as 1).
On 2) Qobuz Naim app 3) Qobuz /Roon 4) Tidal / Naim. 5) Tidal/ Roon

Well just compared one of my favourite tracks at the moment. 24 bit 96KHz version of Harmony Hall by Vampire Weekend from the Album Father of the Bride. I own it at this bit depth and compared to Qobuz via Roon and Naim. Roon wins it over Naim for Qobuz, it has better bass control found it less tight via Naim app and a bit boomy. It’s also a bit more forward. Naim app UPnP and Roon same for local file. I also dont hear any difference in Roon between local and Qobuz. Not sure what it proves really other than why cant the Naim app search my UPnP server.