NDS end of life-no longer! Primare NP5 Mk2

Streaming Audio
1

I jumped into the ‘NDS end of life’ thread with my issues around streaming but that thread has got rather diverted into some high-powered discussions so here is the offshoot with my experience of the Primare NP5 streamer.

The problem; my NDS was getting increasingly unreliable with Tidal, stopping mid stream or after a period when not used, such as overnight. It uses a wired connection. Tidal is what I use to explore and try new music before buying. The majority of my listening is from purchased downloads on the NAS.

So it was either put up with it, maybe try an NSC333 (or another brand streamer altogether) or try a cheap streamer using the NDS as DAC.

I have installed a Primare NP5 MkII. Simple, tiny device, decent app if a bit fussy screens.

I have tried two configurations.

  1. Primare wireless to network>Chord C digital RCA > NDS RCA. NDS remains wired ethernet to NAS (and for iRadio access)

  2. Ethernet > Primare > RCA > NDS. NAS now routed via the Primare so NDS purely as DAC for everything.

(Note I cannot get a separate ethernet cable to both NDS and Primare without lots of hassle)

The results.

  1. Totally stable Tidal connection wirelessly. Sounds good. Is it me or is there a difference comparing Primare and NDS Tidal streams. Is the Primare slightly sweeter?? This setup would have suited me fine but…

  2. Tidal is great but here’s the thing, the NAS files sound better than when played through the Primare than through the NDS. It is not night and day but I’d say a little more delicate, slightly ‘sweeter’ and more separation/soundstage. Bass is good, possibly a fraction less weight but no less pace or resolution. Overall the Primare might be a touch brighter or ‘lighter’ but never sharp or harsh. I’ve switched over several times and tried various musical genres but I’m sure I prefer the Primare as the source. This has surpised me!

I found a few other comments on the Forum with similar results. This is a £450 streamer with a £50 cable and stock power supply. It has definitely postponed any change in the NDS. Delighted. I just need to work out how the internet radio works through the Primare. Not done this yet.

Hope this helps others with ‘legacy’ streamers.

Bruce

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I used Primare NP5 Prisma for several years to stream mostly Spotify. Also Hi Res files with Audirvana as a player. The NP5 gave my Primare AV processor a network capability.

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I use a NP5 going into my Hugo2. A few UI problems but more than satisfied with the sound quality. A great streamer for very reasonable money. :grinning_face:

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A added np5 to my setup and from time to time I change my streamers, to identify who to blame when issues arise.
Nd5 xs2 reacts much faster, however, it is a bit picky and doesn’t like my local network, hell knows why.
As a pure DAC naim is a bit flawed - on the wake up from the deep sleep it connects the digital input only after finishes connecting to the network, regardless it is a wire or wireless. Ridiculous!

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I’d assume it is an effect of Primare’s audio settings. Another guess might be a more deep isolation in a natural way - your naim serves as a pure dac, with no electric noise from inside.

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The digital cable will also have its tonality. Do not cheap out on this is my recommendation.

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You could add a small switch just in front of the NDS & Primare NP5, so retaining the single cable feed, but giving a wired connection to both.

I would also try finding a secondhand EtherREGEN as this switch, putting the NDS on the isolated ‘B’ port with the feed & Primare NP5 on the ‘A’ ports.

You could cleanup the Ethernet feed further and I have found an NDS does benefit.

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Win, win, win.

Fixed the Tidal problem, improved SQ, saved eight grand not buying a NSC333. :grin:

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I found a solution to that with my 272.

Do a google search on Bubble UPnP Server. You can run that on your NAS. Essentially what you can do is cache Tidal locally and then serve the Primare/NDS/etc.

It’s a bit of faff but worth it if you think the quality difference is material.

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NP5 doesnt handle Qobuz connect, I have to use the Primare app, is that correct? Lindemann Bridge and its like will do. Right?

Sorry for asking, must admit I don`t run NDS anymore, but Ndac :slight_smile:

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Yes it today supports Qobuz connect (and Spotify and tidal connect. And Roon). Same streaming board manufacturer as Naim use. I’ve been extremely happy with Lindemann Bridge II paired with NDS.

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Are you sure? The FAQ section of the Primare website has the following entry. I have edited a section but I’m sure people can find the full version. FWIW I am not using Qobuz on mine, only Tidal

Why Embed TIDAL and Qobuz in the Prisma App Instead of Adding Their Connect Features?

  • 5 months ago

  • Updated

Not yet followed by anyone

We have determined that we are unable to add TIDAL or Qobuz Connect to the Prisma platform.

Adding new features or functionalities requires careful evaluation of their value, costs, and potential consequences.

Adding TIDAL and Qobuz Connect to Prisma poses risks, such as potentially limiting future maintenance updates due to memory constraints in the hardware of the platform.

SDKs from technology providers are growing in size and number, potentially consuming Prisma’s memory and hindering the inclusion of new features and providing bug fixes.

Most importantly, there is an ongoing need to address potential bugs resulting from updates to operating systems, Apple or Android, as well as other technology that is part of Prisma, such as AirPlay, Chromecast, TIDAL, Qobuz, and Spotify Connect.

Our analysis of TIDAL and Qobuz Connect does however highlight subtle improvements in audio quality, network stability, and convenience.

Listening tests revealed that TIDAL and Qobuz Connect’s audio performance match what we achieve by embedding those services into Prisma.

By embedding TIDAL and Qobuz into the Prisma application, we achieve comparable benefits in audio playback, with resolution of up to 24/192 kHz with both and gapless playback, and improved network stability.

However, it is understood that the user experience will differ from the native TIDAL and Qobuz apps, so we recommend using the other means to access those services available in Prisma

Consequently, we have chosen to embed both TIDAL and Qobuz directly into Prisma to deliver the best long-term experience for the thousands of Prisma users worldwide now and into the future.

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Another user of NP5mk2 here using as feed to NDAC and/or NDS. Listening experience as per O/P. Small issue reading full indexes of artists / albums when local streaming from my ancient U/Serve but seems to be a U/Serve related issue. Must investigate further sometime.

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This would then make the Primare redundant if it’s just being used to add featured to an old Naim streamer.

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Some observations:
We forgot to pay the isp bill, and our home network was without internet for several hours.
All devices restored the connection with no issues, including primare np5.
However nd5xs2 rendered no sound, and refused to switch to digital input. It required several attempts to sent it to deep sleep and awake.
An interesting observation - during these exercises when I was trying to play from Spotify, the device clearly knew what was playing, the track was progressing, and it showed the album cover in the native application. However, there we no sound. So, looks like the internal commutation depends on the state of the network, which is ridiculous.

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Correct.

It’s extending the life of my 272 quite nicely.

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The Primare NP5 is also improving the sound quality.

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I found that BubbleUPnP Server improved sound quality of Tidal, Qobuz and local streams. Are you saying that the effect of a separate streamer via SPDIF in provides a further improvement in addition to Bubble?

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If the separate stream provides a better sound quality than the streamer in the NDS. Then logically it would.

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I thought it was worth a try and have added a £100 iFi X Power low noise power supply to the Primare NP5 and it has lifted performance further both on Tidal and local streaming. A touch more weight and bass extension (which was slightly lacking on the stock setup) along with extra clarity and a lovely airiness around voices. The whole setup is huge bargain for the uplift in sound. I bought it to give me more reliable Tidal streaming stability, I never expected this result.

The only criticism I have is the rather fussy Prisma app screen on my Android phone. Much nicer to use on the iPad although still not a model of clarity. Still, it works.

The NDS isn’t going anywhere for a good while I think.

Bruce

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