Naim ranged the current ND products appropriately to offer flexibility and upgradability as funds allow or desire for refinement exists.
What perhaps it does lack is modularity, once you invest in a specific model you’re bound to a power supply upgrade journey whereas some owners are looking for say a transport only or as Linn seem to have worked out favourably, an ability to level up the DAC as budget and improvements in technology present themselves, even extending that flexibility to older generation products to extend product lifecycles with technology refinements.
There’s solid reasoning behind Naim’s design choices but in choosing those it does constrain owners to a preset Naim path which doesn’t always suit an owners needs, it’s why some are content with what they have, others who have added external power supplies discover transformational changes and further still, some owners add their own DAC of choice to refine their systems to their particular needs.
But not the SuperLumina? Or XPS DR? Only a bare NDX 2 is worth it’s salt. Some say - not that different from a ND5 XS 2 as well…i’m feeling rather let down…
Actually I thought the suggestion of a £300 reduction was a bit high if anything. Leaving a few components out of a unit would probably make almost no difference to the end price for it.
Having heard a Linn Klimax DSM as a source along side a ND555 with 2x 555PS feeding a full Statement system driving Focal Utopia’s, I found the Klimax preferable to my ears and there’s the obvious matter of it being able to achieve that level of performance, putting it squarely at a level of a fully loaded Naim equivalent source, in one box fed by a single AC IEC cord.
It’s also cheaper in relative terms, has less system complexity as a result with more connectivity options and even has an upgradable DAC sub system.
So it is possible.
…adding the XPS-DR to the NDX 2 a couple of years back and for me it was a fantastic upgrade. Brought it home for a demo and it never left! Worth every penny I paid for it… JMHO - YMMV
Don’t forget that using digital out (with external DAC), there isn’t any decreeable difference in sound between NDX2 and ND5XS2 …
Adding the PSU to the NDX2, should (and you make the point) make it sound superior to the ND5XS2 … but … what it’s like compared to a combined ND5XS2/external DAC?
I suggest in this case, the ND5XS2 external DAC combination is better than NDX2 (with or without an expensive PSU upgrade!
Use the external DAC on the NDX2 and of course it beats a bare ND5XS2 (which can’t have a PSU)
In a £5K power supply maybe, although I think all Naim power supplies are way overpriced, but obviously people (including me) pay these prices.
But taking the power supply components out of an NDX2 would save a few pounds of component costs, but not as much on the end price as you seem to think.
Most of the cost of any Naim unit is not the electronics components cost, but other stuff. Design, development, ongoing for years software support, the fancy hardware, manufacturing, support, sales and distribution, handling returns and rework, marketing, comms & PR, overheads, profit to the investors. Just like any other consumer electronics manufacturer in fact.
I don’t think all Naim PSUs are way overpriced for what they do, but the XPS DR to me is one when coupled with the NDX2 for what it delivers. And not sure why this nice long list above in your view goes all the way to 5k for the separate PSU but does not apply to the creating, development etc etc etc of the NDX2 power supply module where you think it does not form a more sizeable part of its overall cost? Looks like Naim have put some thought into designing it and putting it so well and beautifully together:
Either way, as far as I am concerned, a poor excuse to justify a duplicate PSU and especially when it promotes redundancy and waste (which was the key point).
I would accept if the NDX2’s own PSU was designed at least as continuing to contribute e.g as in the HiCap and Supernait combo - now this is where btw I found the added PSU to work extremely well SQ-wise and the combo to virtually become a new amp. And not overpriced at all but huge value for what it delivers in my experience.
I think it depends on DAC and quality of amplification… I could hear a subtle change with some DACs between ND5XS2 and NDX2 … so you can’t say really say there are no discernible differences … but yes it is subtle… possibly down to minute increased transport clock stability being sourced by a lower impedance power supply and I believe (though not sure) a larger SHARC processor.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. To me it looks like a blast from the past and does not reflect modern design and production techniques.
Yes that is a key point and one which i find an odd and old fashioned way of doing things. There has been a lot of talk about colour and style appealing to younger generations, what about other important technological aspects?
And regarding the price. Well i think Naim equipment costs are unjustifiably high especially as of this year and that the process of milking a name as far as possible is well under way in my humble opinion.
That said, i am happy with what i have and glad that i got off the upgrade train in 2006 or so. Hopefully serviceable in the future is my only wish to continue enjoying what i have
Indeed, I do tend to agree for what they are, but as long as consumers buy and there is a healthy demand I guess you can’t technically say they are over priced…
But it never ceases to surprise the divergence between consumer pricing and commercial pricing on various items… where to a large extent the same components, development costs, quality control etc go into things… perhaps it based on small volumes, and/or go to market chain mark ups… but I will keep the rest to myself on this forum…
Yeah… one is always needing to invest, you never stay still, and things are ever changing, in my field there are many changes constantly being evolved … for example quantum computing which has big changes to the Government and commercial IT security world, and it takes time to understand the impacts and develop with the new technology … a business in electronics, and Naim is formally classed as a consumer electronics manufacturer, will or should always be feeding a percentage of profits or cash flow into investment or it will die.
Yes these particular power supplies will have paid for them selves by now almost certainly and will be subsidising most likely other products… hence the value of balanced portfolio…
However this is academic if demand is there… you charge what the market will support… and also remember those consumer distribution margins….and VAT… Naim possibly only receive 40% of the price of an item… if that…
