Interesting that you’re running an NDX 2 also
I’ve had issues with bad stuttering and dropouts when streaming internet radio and Roon - very unstable. I’ve done a factory reset - helped a little and just now restarted modem/ router and switch, which seems to have done the trick (touch wood). Not certain about the tonal change to the audio however. It’s brighter and clearer but I’m not really liking it at the moment.
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I am by no means an expert and pretty new to all of this. Still i am unsure why Naim should alter the sound and not mention it in the release notes of the firmware. I undersand that if a new codec support is added (such as MQA support) which requires an implementation of how the hardware would work, sound can change but this should be limited to the change itself. But as far as i can see all new functionality in 3.5 is about ease of use (functionality) and bug fixes. If there is any change in sound as a byproduct of these changes it seems to me that something has not been done right. People here surely spend much time tweaking their systems to get the last 0,1% in sound improvement by changing cables, interconnects, speaker placement etc. and now a firmware update is supposed to alter the sound every time a new update is released?
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You may have done so, but I’d be tempted to power down the Atom for a few hours if you have more issues - when I had a spurious corrupted display on the Nova nothing seemed to fix it. One day I unplugged the Powerline to try on something else and didn’t reconnect for a few hours and when I actually restarted the Nova the display glitch was fixed.
Not had much chance to actually judge the sq as its been a miserable experience with all the other issues it’s causing me. There really should be no change other manufacturers manage it not sure how Naim can’t. I am beginning to loose confidence in them in regards to software, it’s not their forte at all it appears.
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There have been quite significant changes in sound presentation on my Nova between early and more recent versions.
I too found this rather frustrating initially, primarily as there is no official way to revert to an earlier version which works more synergistically in an individual set up.
I was once allowed to revert to an older version after the character of the sound changed significantly for the worse for me with several newer releases.
It has been explained previously that virtually any code change can as a side effect of bug fixes/supporting new features alter the sonic character, and I believe that when in beta the sound is tweaked in good faith for the better - this works for some users, not for others which is why I’m rather wary of firmware upgrades in general.
Opinions on sound quality with firmware upgrades was often mixed with Atom/Nova/Star early on.
The fact that the sonic signature is not fixed is both good and bad.
Updated firmware for the older streamer technology some time ago was almost universally considered positive and enhanced the older equipment. Opinion on the newer platform has been more mixed, though the last couple of updates (I’ve not updated to current firmwae as I’ve been away) have for me been positive with much more detail, though perhaps I still prefer an older warmer version - improvements to UPNP and native Qobuz supprt are good tradeoffs, but many newer ‘features’ I could happily live without.
There may be good reasons why Naim do not allow us to readily swap firmware versions, but I think many of us would like the option to do so if a particular version simply works well for us when newer veresions don’t sonically. Naturally we would have to accept older firmware ‘as is’ but the ability to download and revert to a preferred version would be extremely welcome.
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I may have missed solutions along the way, but I get the impression that:
1 - Changes made in the app are not always set on the streamer
2 - Some setting changes do not apply reliably if at all even after restarting or a factory reset
3 - There may be seemingly inconsequential hardware revisions that may affect some units not others - probably wrong but possible
4 - Beta testing (which I’d be happy to do and thought I’d signed up for but only had a single email for the iOS app many moons ago) if there is heavy user reliance has potential flaws in the sense that testers may not investigate new features that are of no perceived value/use to them even if others have requested them frequently
5 - Firmware updates are released when they are felt to be mostly stable based on internal testing and beta user feedback but this can never reflect all users usage ‘in the wild’ - essentially a balance otherwise new updates would be very rare
I’ve mentioned before and almost akin to separate PSUs/pre-power combos which we know are very effective, do the control software/digital transport software/hardware needs to be separated from the DAC and digital/analogue output stages completely if they affect each other.
I also wonder is some ‘features’ are ‘App’ centric not streamer centric and wonder is some issues are due to the ‘App’ not the streamer update.
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I understand why they don’t allow to swap, for support it’s a nightmare, same reason Roon doesnt allow it. But in my opinion design the hardware to avoid the inconsistencies of these updates. If you can’t then from my perspective there is something wrong with how they are designed if they can’t tolerate changes to software. It’s just not good enough for a product at this price range. I bought the system for how it sounded at the time and each update has changed it and most if I am honest I have not liked but have no choice now. The last 2 added bloated bass, two before that made the HF horrid. It sounds like this is a return to that model. Oh well if its not to my liking then this will likely make me move on to something else more consistent and bye bye Naim.
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I agree - a potential nightmare for support but not insurmountable if there were a disclaimer for older firmware downloads indicating that they were on a non-supported ‘as is’ basis.
I also agree that sonic changes between firmware versions is not particularly desirable, especially if we can’t revert - unfortunately we have the hardare we have and the two seem to be inextricalbly related for good or bad making updates a bit of a lottery.
Like you I found some intermediate updates incredibly harsh in HF, but the more sonically appealing recent updates have been far from bass heavy for me, more bass light which is why I often return to an almost 3 year old version though Qobuz and better Audirvana performance are good trade-offs for sonic differences.
I still think this streaming stuff is in its infancy.
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For Naim maybe but not heard of anything like this for other makes. Updated my RME dac and it sounds the same as it did before.
Also having spent £1800 on new speakers based on how it sounded before the latest update I am now a little bit dubious if it has ruined that synergy.
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That would be the ideal but a compromise - for many newer firmware is better for others it is worse - hence the easy ability to revert to a preferred version would seem to be the perfect solution fro those who put SQ ahead of features or spurious bug fixes. Software bugs are virtually ubiquitous from small or huge companies, we just have to accept that I feel, but the effects of negative software upgrades potentially affect smaller companies more than huge ones like MS/Apple.
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Oh heck, I feel your frustration.
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Only time will tell will I guess. Have the demo ones until tomorrow when I take possession of my own.
Would the dealer allow you to keep the demo ones longer if they no longer work well in the system - if the new speakers are a special order it might be awkward but if a regular item sold they might consider pausing the sale?
Thanks Richard. I did think using the Uniti Core with a Naim network player was local streaming? Anyway, the presenting functionality from the Core would be nice. But there also remains the issue as to why locally stored favourites are visibility via the remote > home > favourites route, but the Core isn’t, as this is a different functionality from the presets. Maybe @davidhendon can explain?
My other thought is why are functionality improvements directed at internet streaming rather than local streaming, given that the later has better SQ and Naims ethos is always to out SQ first?
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He might but they do order them in especially die to choice of finishes. Ill cross that bridge if I need to. Hopefully it does not come to it.
Good luck with it anyway.
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Not sure that’s entirely true both local and streaming sounds as good as each other when it’s the same master. The issues arise when it’s not. Last week I was playing a remaster from Qobuz and it sounded awful compared to my old cd not a remaster. But I have some modern recordings and the masters are the same online and local and both sound the same. The market for consuming music has vastly changed, having files,CDs is on the way out and for record companies more profitable, although artists less so. Don’t address the uplift in online services you risk being completely behind. Whether you like it or not it’s the future of music and any company not investing in this side of things are going to be Dinosaurs and not survive.
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I feel exactly the same regarding sonic changed with update and have an ND555
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