I doubt we will agree and sing together
And you’ll say that they (or the Cerabase devices which are similar) are a massive improvement on Fraim cups and balls (even though you haven’t tested them in a statistically representative number of different situations).
Or maybe you haven’t tested either in your system (which apparently perfectly models every conceivable situation, thus allowing you to use it with your perfect hearing to identify the absolute quality of any product you try out).
To put it another way: get your own house in order before making snide remarks about other people!
P.S. I’m actually starting to experiment with a system designed on similar principles, so yes I do understand how they work. Also, from what they have written, it’s clear that either I understand it better than the person who wrote that marketing blurb, or they have simplified their explanation much too far.
Time for bed you two… separately please.
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Very good! 
That made me laugh.
Actually I often go to be quite early, you know, 1AM, 2AM, 3AM, that sort of thing!
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I will never say that cerabases make an improvement vs glass and cup and balls, because i even don’t like their effect under naim components.
However, under my speakers they give fantastic results.
Very positive results under my tube pre and under the base of the fraimlite rack.
I didn’t said neither that glass and balls and cups are not effective under Naim components. But certainly not the only possibility and there are very probably better isolation devices, like Townsend, HRS, magnetic devices supports and many other.
And that’s absolute knowledge is it, for all people in all circumstances, or is that conclusion just for your system and your listening preferences?
And to reach that conclusion, I take it that you’ve tested all (or at least a significantly large number) of these “very probably better isolation devices”.
I would say both but more for my personal system of course.
However, under speakers specifically, components like cerabases and Stillpoints are acclaimed by many many users all over the world, in many audio reviews ( Stereophile, hifi plus, Absolute Sound, Hificritic…) and many different forums.
Wow, you admonish me “Some humility would not be too much.” yet you claim absolute knowledge for yourself!
OK, no answer to that, you clearly know everything better than do I.
At this rate, it will be show-down at dawn you 2!
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No, the reason I say very probably. But I see no reason that a simple glass shelf can be the best isolation device under naim electronics.
There are many more
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I said both for answering your question : in all circumstances or only your personal system.
But said also more in my personal system.
I don’t see absolute knowledge here. I know just that ceramic balls isolation devices are acclaimed by many many users, so they have good effects under all speakers.
Under all components, certainly not, and even not under mine.
I have not absolute knowledge and even no technical knowledge at all.
Just tried some components and trust reviews of journalists and individual users which all go in the same direction and conclusions, as Stillpoints and Isoacoustics Gaia under speakers.
You may find an Internet search for Potential Rigged HDMI Demo Exposed to be quite informative as it shows the lengths to which some marketing people will go.
I was a product designer and used to cringe at the marketing copy our company produced using something called the Shipley method. None of our marketing folk had a clue as to how products worked, but that didn’t stop them writing pages describing how it did.
If any of us relied upon adverising or marketing we’d be in a sad old state! Virtually every hifi manufacturer’s websites (Naim included) contain pretty cringeworthy claims, with accessories and after market stuff easily topping the pile!
There is absolutely no substitute for listening with your own ears, preferably at home, or a well set up dealer’s demo room. Having been a member of this forum for a year or two I’m loath to set too much store by members’ recommendations (my own included!) as we all hear things differently and, as far as I’m concerned, only art beats music in terms of subjectivity!
One mans meat is another mans poison - never were truer words written.
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Interestingly enough, neither did Naim. At first…
When developing the Fraim, glass was initially reckoned to not be a front runner, based upon experience with other equipment supports that used it at the time. A great variety of materials were tested and in the end the best was a very expensive aluminium plate. The problem was that it was very difficult to make because it was perfectly flat (similar stuff used for SL2 interface plates) and also extremely costly., enough to make it commercially unviable. The surprise though was that the next best thing, and very close in performance, was the Pilkington glass that is currently used in the Fraim. So perhaps now you can see a reason why glass was used with the Fraim.*
*Note though that glass just in itself may well not be the best thing. The glass is just a part of a whole that is the Fraim. You cannot just pick one element apart from that and make judgements. It all works together.
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Personally, I have owned a HiFi Racks Podium Slimline and a Podium Reference. In the next few days, I will take delivery of a full Fraim rack. I will then find out for myself. However, I would never impose the view, that “One size fits all.”
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Have you got Naim glass, cups and balls on your HiFi Racks? Look forward to hearing your impressions.
Phil
I had no cups, balls or glass with the HiFi racks. The problem with trying to compare, is it will be from memory. Unless, there is a dramatic uplift with the Fraim. I decided on the Fraim instead of adding bits to the other racks, simply because this is a complete tried and tested system. Time will tell !
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I think that’s sensible - better to get an integrated solution than adding bits to other bits, which is always unpredictable. I once had a Fraim glass on an Isoblue for my CDS2 but always had a slight doubt as to whether it made a real improvement.
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