Currently have a SN3+HiCap DR + NDX driving PMC 5.21i speakers. I have the opportunity to trading in the SN3 for a NAC 282 + NAP 250 DR.
I know that moving to a NAC 282 + 250 DR should an improvement on my current set up - but looking for some sort of indication what sort of improvement would I be getting if I changed? Better bass, sweeter treble, wider soundstage??? I have happy with the PMC which seems to work well in the small room where the system is set up. Are the speakers able to realise the potential improvement that the NAC 282 + 250DR brings or does the speakers limit the improvement I might hear
Hi, the 282/250 is a step up from the Supernait in all areas. I think your speakers are plenty good enough to show these improvements, even though the Supernait is ‘enough’ to drive them.
My only reservation would be that the NDX, which is great with a Supernait, I found lacking as a source into the more revealing 282/250. To me it really needs to be upgraded to do the amp justice. Adding a power supply or upgrading the DAC would be good options.
Im looking to do that same swap. My dealer just offer me a 300dr and 252 and it was too much price difference for me to digest in one bite.
I did the same last year, but not at the same time. I added the 282 first using the SN3 as a power amp. This was quite a revelation, as Chris says above, an improvement across the whole range, the 282 certainly has character, I loved it. Adding the 250 a few months later wasn’t as immediate a change as I was perhaps expecting, I became aware of the improvements over time, more punch/dynamics and a better grip on the speakers, a really great amp.
I’ve not heard the NDX so can’t comment on that, I had an ND5XS2 with nDAC … a great combo that I’m still using, I highly recommend looking at this if/when you think about upgrading your source. If you can find an nDAC!
If you go with the 282/250 I’m pretty confident you’ll not be disappointed, it’s a great combination and you’ll find a lot of happy people with it here … if in any doubt try and listen first.
Thank you for your responses… I am going to proeed with the upgrades, I will be getting the NAP250DR early next week and the NAC282 some time Jan from the person I am buying it from… so quick question, until I get the NAC282, I want to use the NAP 250DR to drive the speakers, but a bit confused as to how to connect to NAP 250DR - do I unplug the 4 pin SNARC cable between the HiCAP and the Superuniti and connect to NAP 250 to the Hicap or do I leave the connections as they are now connect the NAP 250 to the ‘biamp’ socket on the Superuniti?
I did look at the various connection guides and I dont see this connection option anywhere
Connect like this:
This shows SN2/NAP200 but it’s essentially the same.
You could also biamp, but if you are getting the 282 you will not biamp then, so do you really want to add another pair of speaker cables temporarily?
Thank you very much for the info - NAP 250 DR connected and in the process of being run in. My speaker (PMC 5.21i) does not support bi-wiring… so will only be using the ooutput from the NAP 250 DR
282/250 dr match made in heaven, nice one very very good foot tapping music on its way!
The SN3 is a wonderful organic sounding amp. Swapping your notoriously hard to drive 25.21i for the 25.22i might give you a far more uplift in sq than going for the 282 + 250DR combo.
Supernait 3 swapped out and now replaced with a NAC 282 + HiCap DR + NAP 250 DR - the NAC 282 and NAP 250 DR are Naim new (but old stock).
The units have been powered on for the last 3 days and I have got to say that I am a little underwhelmed with the sounds being produced when compaired with the SN3 + HiCap DR. The sound is detailed but, but less so than with the SN3 and the bass less powerful then the SN3.
I am assuming that this is a case of the new product still in the ‘burn-in’ period - as I read that the typical burn-in period is around 200 hours.
Is there anything I can do to help speed up the process - pay music vs just leaving the units switched on, if playing music, should it be a normal/lower listening level or a bit louder (this cause an issue in the night when the household are trying to sleep…!!)
I’d usually expect quite a big difference straight out of the box to be honest, so I’m thinking that your NDX is holding things back. I’d have recommended a source upgrade before swapping out a SN3 I’m afraid. I was running an NDX2 with an XPS DR on a SN2 before adding a 252, followed by a 250. Each of those were a big step up.
Hopefully it’s the fact they are both new but I would still expect even straight out of the box to be able to hear a marked improvement, never heard an NDX so cannot comment on that side but one thing I did notice when I started my Naim journey, not that long ago, I auditioned the XS3, SN3 and the 202/200 for me the SN3 always sounded a little enhanced in the top and bottom end, works great for lots of people hence the glowing reviews you see from owners on the forum, so not sure if this maybe what you are hearing, this is purely my take on what I have heard.
The 282 on it’s own for me was a nice uplift, opens everything up making everything easier to follow, depth improved along with better bass and more detail or as the sound stage opens up you simply hear things that were there but now they are easier to pick out if that makes sense.
Stick with it, sure it will improve but maybe a change at the front is needed to get the full benefit of the upgrades.
Hope everything works out for you going forward.
This is nearly what I have in my study system (the hc is unmentionable hereabouts ) though my 282 is old but recently serviced. The 250dr is I think (hope?) holding it back at the moment but hasn’t got that many hours on it. It’s a problem leaving on when I am not in the room as other people would be disturbed by it, as you have said. I haven’t been able to find much on 250dr run in timescales but I am probably less than 50 hours listening and find it a bit harsh / cold sounding. I have nSats on wall brackets and naca5 cable
The “damage” is done, no point in debating the move now.
Still, the 250DR is not up to par in driving the 25.21i efficiently. I have the 25.23, a touch more sensitive than the 25.21 and went from 250DR to 300DR to little effect in improving the grip and dynamics. Now, if a 500DR is indeed what the 25.21 speakers really require, I think we’d be better served by going for a different set of speakers. Hence my earlier suggestion to go for the 25.22 instead, which are far easier to drive and to reach their full potential with a 250DR.
Side note: I used a pair of Cyrus X300 Signature monoblocks to drive my 25.23 for a while and although they have more than enough power to get these speakers going, the Cyrus sound signature is not exactly on my alley, highlighting the wrong side of the music experience in my view, totally opposite to what Naim has been trying to achieve with their electronics. So now, I’m hunting for a pair of 25.24i or even 25.26i.
I am a bit confused by your answer in that implies that the SN3 is more able than the 282+250DR - I only changes the amp - from an integrated to a pre+power which is supposed to be a step up and yet it appears that (at least for now) that the sound quality hass taken a step down.
The PMC 5.21i is the smalles stand mount in the PMC 5 series range - so would have thought that I would need the amplification further up the Naim range or a more powerful amp to drive it correctly - as I mentioned the SN3 seemed to drive it correctly, I only upgraded as I thought I could get a bit more oout the speakers and to also allow me to maybe consider the PMC 5.23i in the future - I would not want speakers much larger than this as the room where this system is located is small
I switched from the sn3 to the 282/hcdr/250dr and for me there was no contest. The sn3 is a wonderfully cohesive sound but I love the more forward/exciting sound of the 282. I would not have said the sn3 is more detailed for me personally but everyone hears differently as we have different speakers/rooms/ears.
One alternative you might consider is trying is seeing if anywhere has a 252 to try it may be that you prefer a certain presentation to music and that the 282 is too forward for you though that requires a supercap to power as well so may be too expensive.
Another option would be looking for a used 202 to demo this might be a cheaper way to determine if it’s the 282’s style that is the problem. The 202 is of similar capability to the sn3 but the 250dr should in theory be giving your speakers more power.
Finally the potentially simplest option is if your sn3 was traded in and hasn’t sold yet asking for it back temporarily and using it as a pre-amp with the 250dr then you could see if the 250dr adds anything.
It might be you want to go back to the sn3/hcdr you had and consider eventually saving up for the full 252/scdr/300dr combo. Or just staying with the sn3/hcdr and deciding it’s perfect for you. There is of course also the potential of a nc integrated amp eventually.
Please keep us posted on your findings.
There’s a period of breaking in that you have to take into account, the 282 and 250DR will better your SN3 without a doubt. My point was directed to whether your dissatisfaction would have been addressed by having more power available to your hard(er) to drive 25.21 speakers.
Another suggestion would be to look into adding a small sub to your setup. I’m using a REL T5/x with the 25.23 in my 10mp home office to - get this - boost both vocals and the top end, not just the bottom end.
I know the consensus here is that the 300DR and even the 250DR are more than enough to drive a pair of 25.21(i) but unless you’ve never experienced what a pedigreed 250W@8ohms amplifier can bring to the table, you wouldn’t know any better.
Having said that, I’m keeping the 300DR. It sounds great.
Was listening to music in the background last night and on a Peter Gabriel track, the bass caught my attention… so I sat down and played the tracks which I normally use to compaire changes of components.
The 282+Hicap DR, 250 DR seem to come on song - the bass is there as is the detail in the soundstage… thanks goodness… as I was going to contact my dealer to ask him to take back 282 and 250 and return my SN3
I can only assume that since all the components are new - even the HiCap DR, they needed time to bed in.
I have now connected the sub woofer and found that I had to dial down the setting (reduction by 4 db) that worked with the SN3 to make the - I suspect I will have to tweek it again if the 282+250 sound matures over time.
The sound change can almost creep up on you, so not surprising after a few more hour of use your new system is starting to come on song.
From my experience this keeps going as you revisit your music collection.
When I read your first post I was a little surprised but sounds like you are getting there, enjoy.