I have the Chord DAVE, M Scaler and Chord Etude amp all on one level, the DAVE/M Scaler have a reasonable distance between them but are connected via BNC cables.
The innuos Zenith, PhoenixUSB and PhoenixNet are on the level below with the PhoenixUSB connecting to the M Scaler. So not close/stacked but mindful of connections that are required.
Any Naim kit is in the other room.
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Hi Michael,
DAVE seems to be fairly benign, so I put mine 2 shelves below the NAC52. He does like a decent mains cable (e.g. Powerline) and really benefits from a good RCA to DIN cable to the Naim pre-amp - a Chord Signature would be an excellent start point.
The M Scaler is generally understood to be less well behaved, so keep the thing as far away from pre amp and DAVE as you can manage.
A set of Wave High Fidelity Storm BNC cables definitely helps to minimise any etched sound quality with DAVE by blocking the RFI that can transmit from the MScaler to DAVE. They make the music calmer, clearer and tonally slightly darker in a good way.
The M Scaler plus DAVE combination leaves the ND555 far behind when it comes to the resolution of fine detail that makes live tracks truly come to life. The acoustic imaging is also in a different league.
However, the ND555 has a coherent, balanced presentation that makes us focus on the song as a whole, rather than to zoom in on specific instruments or details of the mix. The hardest bit to get right with the Chord combo has been to get that smooth, natural, warm tone, as the default is slightly analytical and etched until you get rid of ALL the RFI.
Timing-wise, both are superb and equivalent to these cloth ears.
Oh, and all that stuff about the Chord combo being immune to the streaming source upstream of them is absolute rot. We even heard the difference between copper vs. silver cables between the Paul Haynes SR4T power supply and the EtherRegen!
In summary, both ND555 and the Chord combo are excellent and you will soon know which one you prefer. It took us less than 10 seconds.
Hope this helps.
BF
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I’d like to know how to do this, if someone can point my in the right direction, please.
Currently, I (think) my Zenith is serving local and streamed content to the Nova, but I’d like to be able to try the above configuration.
This is the screen shot from my iPad, Zenith as server, playing via my NDS, using Innuos Sense.
You can see the UPnP Bridge noted in bottom left that is enabling this to be done.
I have a UPnP bridge in my system as part of the set up to Roonify my system.
I understand that Innuos (Nuno) will post some instructions into a future Inn-sights to explain how to set this up via the LMS installed on our Zen/Zeniths, that is if you don’t have a separate UPnP bridge today.
What I can’t get to play via this method unfortunately is music via Qobuz.
I may have not quite set something up correctly, but I can easily switch to Roon mode to do this as and when I feel like it.
Hope this helps?
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You need to run LMS on the Innuos go to its web interface which is the IP of the machine on port 9000 so 192.268.1.100:9000 as example and enable the plugin called UPnP bridge in the plugins section. Follow it’s instructions and it should find all UPnP renderers on your network and show them as devices Sense can stream to. How you enable LMS on Innuos I can’t help with but this was the old server app used before 2.0.
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I think to have understood that later or soon the Ethernet connection will give you the possibility to use the Sense app. I read that in the Innuos 2.0 insights thread.
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What is a separate UPNP bridge Chris?
The LMS plugin can be run independently from the server software on another computer such as a Nas or raspberry pi or Mac or Windows . It will work the same. Its downloadable as en executable file. But you have to manually configure it. Or you buy the Sonore hardware version for £200 which does the same but for one device only, the app does as many as it finds. They both work in the same way.
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As @CrystalGipsy said: exactement!
Mine is the Sonore UPnP Bridge that is making it work as I described.
The LMS UPnP Bridge plug in in the Zenith is the other option.
Cheers!
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I run the DAVE on top shelf of my Fraim stack and it seems to work pretty well there -
The m-scalar I run on a different stack - however more for convenience to keep cables separate - I am not unduly concerned - however I do route its power lead away from anything else.
I do find I prefer the presentation of DAVE with a Naim Powerline - I find the deep bass/sub bass becomes slightly more apparent - I use unbalanced interconnects.
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I’m intending to write this up in more detail over the weekend when everything is definite in my mind: the short version is:
The Dave is in front of the Naim racks on a little shelf unit with the MS two shelves down. The MS is also plugged into a different set of wall sockets. The connection between the two is Chord Shawline BNC.
I’ve tried:
Innuos Statement → DAVE
Innuos → MS → Dave
ND555 (with 2xPS) → Dave
I’ve been using the Innuos in offline mode and with Sense to try and get the highest SQ
The ND555 is fed from a Roon Nucleus+ via the demo Innuos PhoenixNet, with which I am most impressed. I aim to do some more extended listening of the PheonixNet once I have got the Dave/MScaler comparisons over with, wanting to listen for possible soundstaging artefacts that may be present, but could simply have been a problem with just a particular rather processed recording (Lhasa’s La Llorona).
The same WAV and FLAC tracks were copied to the respective server drives for the comparison.
ON the DAVE, DAC mode and Phase negative sound better with my system. Phase Neg was a big improvement. I’ve not found the Dave with/without MS massively more detailed than the ND555 but it does have a lower noise floor than the ND555 so some of it stands out more. The Chord certainly provides a very solid, broad but not perhaps so deep soundstage and a beguiling smooth sound. On the other hand I don’t find it times as well as the ND555, failing to capture expressive variations in stress and tempo as well as the ND5555. I also find it less palpable in its reproduction of the textures of instruments and the human voice, especially female, but also in the lower registers, where both these weaknesses seem to combine, leading to less articulacy and for me an ultimately less involving and moving experience. Although the MScaler creates a lovely sense of space and flowing smoothness, I find it exacerbates the timing and tonal texture weaknesses. Bass extension also is less than the ND555.
The Innuos Sense app is very nice to use. Better than the Naim in my opinion where user interface is concerned. Interestingly, however, the SQ gap between the Dave and ND555 was narrowed by using the ND555 to front the Dave, connected by one of the Chord Shawlines. I can see (hear) why @Simon-in-Suffolk has opted to use the NDX2 with his Dave.
Most of these distinctions were with regard to classical music but also jazz, looking - for example - for how the equipment is able to convey different performers playing together and off each other. That’s what’s most important to me, but I also messed about with Rock, Heavy Metal, Psytrance/Progressive and Punk.
I’ll write in greater detail about the pieces I chose for this evaulation and the cues I used to form these impressions.
I came to this expecting to be wowed by the Innuos Statement and Chord with its ultra-modern FPGA DAC and million tap technology etc. and feeling rather sorry for Naim with its old Burr Brown but now come away with a new respect for what Naim have been able to achieve and which I took for granted.
Ha! So much for not writing at length. In short, I think my findings are similar to those of @frenchrooster and @Darkebear…
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Nice write up. Glad you too have found the Phoenix net to be a stellar performer. I remember even my dealer baulking at the price when i asked him to get one in, but when i explained the design with power supply and re clocking he ordered it in. I too-can see why people like Chord Dave/DCS, but i always felt that in finding the extra detail, airiness of the soundstage, something else was lost in the process that I need to keep me listening for any length of time.
I guess we are all lucky that there is some great kit out there to choose from👍
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Very nice review Michael. The last thing to try would be the Statement into Nd555 with Audiophileo/ pure power.
As you wrote, I had similar impressions with the Dave as you, but had not heard the Mscaler with it.
I was less involved, had not the whole organic sound I like with Naim, with an impression of leaner sound and less textured.
But I felt the Dave was more detailed, at least vs the Nds. The soundstage was for me more holographic with the Dave, but with less cohesiveness between the players.
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I don’t think it would be fair to buy one on trial or return from Elite Audio in Scotland, who sell them here in the UK.
I preferred the sound of the ND555 as a streamer feeding the DAVE DAC, so can’t see any point in using the Statement to feed the ND555’s internal DAC. Also, it seems clear from my playing around with all this gear that the PhoneixNet contributes more on its own to the performance of the ND555 than does the Statement with its USB output, whether using UPNP mode or Roon.
PS: I got this well and truly wrong, having (1) Not given the OCCO in the Statement enough time to come on song (2) Connected up the Statement and PhoenixNet in a way that did allow them to perform optimally together.
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I agree that it feels strange to use the wonderful Nd555 only as a dac.
However I thought you could borrow from a dealer that cable, or from other brand. Was curious.
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I’d be more curious to try the Innuos when it has optimised its Ethernet output with caching etc. as its has the USB output. However, the important thing is that at the moment I think the ND555 network streamer sounds better than the Statement server and streamer - with the Dave at least: more instrumental texture, rhythmic detail and PRaT.
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Ah of course, you already know that Nd555/Dave sounds better than Statement/ Dave. So no need to try Nd555 as dac from the Statement.
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Some great options to have tried and in the end it probably comes down to system synergy and your preference on which strengths or compromises you prefer. Must have been fun to try all the different options
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