Don’t get me wrong, Michael, I wasn’t doubting you. I am just learning, like you. This is a rather new world for me, and a rather exciting one at that.
1 Like
Good god man: doubt me! You’re quite right. It’s got nothing to do with Sense! I was having a chat about this with the Innuos people this morning: It’s the changes to the new version of the Innuos operating system, in particular how the CPU use has been changed to reduce noise and how they have reduced polling over the internet for the same reason, plus a few other things my brain was unable to retain.
So it’s not Sense but the difference between direct control using Sense vs. UPNP Server operation. Now please don’t ask me why this should make a difference, but it does. The caching may have something to do with it - there’s quite a pause between selecting an album and play of the first track when using Sense.
The Innuos people are all great. Very forthcoming and very enthusiastic.
I’m listening to some ECM Anja Lechner albums this morning. Fantastic…
1 Like
So are you not using the Statement at the moment? If you are, I highly recommend updating it to the latest version and raising a service ticket with Innuos support, telling them you have heard about the LMS workaround that lets you use Sense and asking for a remote session for them to install it. They would be happy to do this I believe.
1 Like
Hi Michaelb
It’s not that I’m not using it (admittedly I’m not listening much at the moment), rather that I have the statement/ etheregen/ synology nas sitting on glass shelves of a rack which a rather large tv sits on. It may not be as bad as I first thought in so far as the boxes are isolated from the two fraim racks and all the interference the boxes may have imposed. I doubt it’s ideal though!
I think mine is relatively up to date, excepting the one scheduled for release today.
If I leave my keys under the door mat, would you like to pop round and sort mine all out when I’m not there?!! Being a complete luddite, that would be the least painful option!
Thanks very much for the suggestion re Innuos and LMS - I am simply not at home during the week, other than late-ish evenings so I suspect that will have to wait until work quietens down a little. Unfortunately no likely to be any time soon.
Peter
Well a quick update from me here: I’ve pulled the trigger on the Statement and PN. The Statement is a mighty fine bit of kit when you let it warm up thoroughly! I’ve been listening to all the usual favourites with “difficult bits” to see how it handles them and sometimes completely forget what I am supposed to be doing and just get carried away by the music. It really does a very fine job of allowing the ND555 to pick you all the instrumental timbres and textures in their full complexity, whjio;el also holding it all together. It also had me a little baffled at first: I am used to some sort of residual noise delineating the soundstage, whereas with this there is nothing at all.
I have however discovered that the PhoenixNet is very fussy about where it is sited. It was positively miserable above the 500 PS and still somewhat miffed directly on top of the Statement - or else iut could be that the Statement doesn’t like having it on top. Whatever the case, putting it on the floor enhances the texture and PRaT.
So it looks like I will be following @Gazza 's example since there’s no room for a third Fraim rack. Which leads me to a question for him: did you place yours on the slate tile because it sounded better and if so have you put anything between the floor and tile - or was it simply because you have a carpeted floor? Mine is “engineered” wood on concrete.
For @NigelB the Statement sounds wonderful on its own, but adding the PN increases the clarity, instrumental tones and sense of space. You should be able to demo both, however, to make up your own mind. The Innuos people are very supportive through a good dealer. They have worked very closely with Audio-T to humour me.
For @northpole it sounds very good with in UPNP mode with the Naim app and only slightly nut noticeably better with the Sense app. The LMS workaround is fine most of the time, providing you remember to stop a track that is playing before playing another one. I’m sure it will of course work and sound better when Innuos come through with full implementation for Ethernet.
2 Likes
Hi Michael……it was because it was on carpet, I had a spare granite tile so used it thinking it might get overly warm……but no listening test with/without. It did not like being sandwiched between the nd555 on top of fraim and the 552 pre below……but this could also be the 552 liking more air with free shelf above and a tall fraim spacer below?
Well thanks for the update and enjoy your listening👍
2 Likes
Thanks for recording a very interesting journey, lots of evaluating and testing various combos. The bit that surprised me most was the addition of the PhoenixNet to the Statement making a difference, I had always assumed it was essentially a subsection of the Statement.
Happy listening that is a really nice system you have now.
Hi @Michaelb, many thanks for the update.
It sounds like the Statement is a major contender for me, when my UnitiServe conks out. It is however slightly disappointing to hear that the addition of the PN improves further on the Statement, even though the Statement has essentially a PN switch included inside. As I have said before, we still have lots to learn with servers and switches, even Innuos seemed surprised with how much SQ has been enhanced with the 2.x.x software.
I assume you are using the LMS workaround and Sense for UPnP connection to your ND555 in your listening tests? If so, that does seem a little flakey. Any idea on Innuos’ plans for full implantation of UPnP/ethernet connection, or where I can keep tabs on this (I don’t do Facebook BTW)?
So had I, but there are several things that mean it makes a difference, including the big dedicated toroidal power supply, the type (lower speed and physical design) and mounting of the ports as well as how they are powered and the lack of LEDs. Apparently it wouldn’t be possible to fit all the gubbins in the Statement box. The OXCO is the same, however. No doubt the PN makes a bigger difference to a Zenith, but it’s still a nice step up for the Statement, too.
I’m very happy with how the ND555 is transformed and it all consoles me for not having the space to build up an LP library that would justify the purchase of a Solstice 
4 Likes
Ah, you have answered my query about the PN adding to the SQ of the Statement.
Cheers.
1 Like
You’re welcome. I can also post here or on another thread when a definite release date or release comes through.
Innuos have a weekly blog (Innsite) on their website and also a section where you can vote for features you would like. They have already committed to full implementation of Ethernet functionality for Sense there, but have sensibly enough not given a timescale, SW development being what it is.
The main problems I have encountered with the current LMS workaround is that you need to be careful not to select a track when another track is playing. Stop playing the track before you do so. And use Sense to control everything (not e.g. the Naim remote etc.), whether in the form of the website browser implementation for Mac/PC or the iOS etc. App itself. If you don’t do that, you can have problems getting a track to start subseqeuently. The other problem can be that it will jump just before the end of a track to the next. Equally starting replay in the middle of a track can cause it to jump to the next. And you can’t play WAV files using this workaround. It’s all a bit irritating, but not so frequent as to be the end of the world. If you get a demo, it at least gives you a good idea of what the gear is capable of. I’ve been playing using this workaround all day and it’s only caused a problem once, so not enough for me to go for another option.
On the other hand the UPnP server option (controlled using the Naim app) seems to work fine all the time and is only a couple of notches down for SQ.
The Roon implementation also seems quite solid if of interest. SQ is slightly down from the UPnP server implementation but still significantly better than Roon heard anywhere else (in my experience).
1 Like
Thanks Michael, I will keep an eye open for your updates on here and will check Innsite. I, and several others I suspect, will be interested to hear how you get on with the Statement and the PN.
You mention currently the SW update to 2.x.x in UPnP workaround mode with Sense cannot play WAV. All my files on the UnitiServe and NAS are in Flac format, which the UnitiServe transcodes to WAV on the fly streaming to the ND555. I still suspect the latest Naim streamers sound at their best with WAV, but am happy to be proven wrong here. However this begs the question of whether, when fully implemented for UPnP, the Statement, used with Sense, will be able to play WAV (seems a no brainer it will), and furthermore would transcode Flac to WAV on the fly when streaming to the ND555. Any ideas on this?
I remember an fm radio one Christmas as a present, and silly in ear plugs listening to Radio Caroline……now we cannot just plug into the router. Good games as Bruce Forsyth would say.
Good game…good game…not easy!
And £10k for a bloody server…I must need my bumps felt!
But I have always been of the ‘source first’ persuasion and the server/hard drive is the ultimate source front end.
2 Likes
The Statement plus the PhoenixNet is a superb combination but expensive, the Statement starts at £11,399 for 1TB (£500 for each additional TB).
It may be worth considering/demoing the Zenith/PhoenixNet as you have no real need for the PhoenixUSB element of the Statement in your system, this would come in at a more reasonable 
£6,100. The Statement does however benefit from an additional LPS and other improvements.
I have demoed most of the Innuos range albeit not as extensively as Michael.
2 Likes
That is an excellent idea, and shows how little I know about the Innuos range.
However I guess the Statement must have other technological advances over the Zenith (that contribute to SQ) to justify the huge additional price. I will need to weigh all this up when my trusty(?) UnitiServe expires.
Yes the Statement has advantages and is truly Innuos top of the range, I was just highlighting that alternatives exist cost wise as the Innuos PhoenixUSB, £2,599, is incorporated within the Statement and in your Naim set up it’s not vital.
The Statement plus the PhoenixNet will of course be the best solution sound wise, I was simply highlighting this would comparatively cost approx £14,000 vs £6,100.
2 Likes
Hi Nigel,
There are apples and pears:
Apple 
: there is already a functioning UPnP server option on the Innuos servers, which allows you play Flac and Wav files using the Naim App in our case and it’s quite stable.
Pear 
: the Logitech Media Server (LMS) workaround which allows you to control the Innuos servers for Ethernet connection (rather than as a UPnP server) using the new Sense app. This is the one that sounds great because it’s deploying all the various new improvements but is a little flakey. It can’t play Wav at the moment but I’d be surprised if that remained the case when Innuos implement their own custom solution.
Then of course there’s use as a Roon core using RAAT. That’s the orange 
I suppose (rang the bells of St clement’s)
2 Likes
And is exactly what I’m using. I demo’ed the Zen, Zenith and Statement - all pre PhoenixNET - and felt that Zenith was the sweet spot. The Statement was undoubtedly better but this was using a Dave/Blu and I wasn’t able to use the USB advantages in my system.
I was then “persuaded” to try a PN and it had a profound effect, way more than I had expected. I’d definitely consider this combo if you’re sticking to an Ethernet connection.
3 Likes