You do seem very invested in this thread though, which I don’t really understand.
2 Likes
Of course Naim could design a replacement board with sufficient processing power to handle all of the desired services and sufficient memory to hold all the required firmware and data buffers etc, maybe based on the second generation hardware, and offer it as a hardware upgrade to the muso and Qb, so in that sense it is technically possible, but within the limitations of the existing hardware I believe it’s not possible.
Best
David
3 Likes
After posting the beginning of this thread, I’m delighted with the varied responses. Even the grumpy ones. Yes, I could just use my Topping E30, but the sound is much better on the NDX. What is becoming clear from the responses is that we won’t get to the bottom of the problem for Naim in getting Qobuz onto it. I am happy to accept what I bought - the NDX is a great machine. The problem is that I much prefer Qobuz to Tidal, with loads of their downloads on my NAS and now their top streaming package. With Tidal I have problems finding a lot of the music I’m looking for. From the responses I need to try Bubble UPNP and hope that won’t have the dropout problems. The point about the cheap Topping is that I can plug my iPhone in directly to the USB and get hi res Qobuz (196) problem free. The USB input on the NDX can read a USB stick, but not my iPhone stream as it just switches on ITunes. That may have been appropriate a decade ago, but current Naim users are unlikely to want ITunes quality now. Would it be a software or hardware issue for Naim to enable streaming on USB? Its good to use the Qobuz app also if you are used to it e.g. for headphone use.
Yup, that’s me. A trade/buy back program would have been appreciated, instead within months of buying them they became ‘legacy’ streamers.
To add insult to injury Naim seem to prioritise useless (I’ve only heard complaints, no one here seems to find it a brilliant addition) features over bringing their Android app on par with the iOS version, or any other music playing app on either Android or iOS for that matter. Why is there still no lock screen / notification area widget after 8(!) months?
3 Likes
Regular over the air updates and improvements was most certainly part of their marketing/sales. Would you have bought a software product in 2019 which said, “this is it, nothing will ever change”?
So I would disagree with your statement.
1 Like
Jim, you’re getting increasingly ruder as this thread progresses which is strange as earlier on you were talking about losing perspective.
.sjb
1 Like
Forget that these devices still work as designed.
Naim just need to offer a solution. It may not be economically viable for the customer. But it stops these discussions and allows the customer to make a choice rather than feel upset. It could rip out all the internals and fit a solution, or offer a generous discount a gen 2 model. I get that this is not what others would do, buy this is Naim. Their customers like to have a long term relationship with them.
2 Likes
I almost dare not to mention, on this topic of obsolescence, that Linn upgrades their streamers with functionality all the time. Roon compatibility, room correction. Even the oldest version streamers get updates. An example for other manufacturers to follow, I.M.H.O.
3 Likes
And you seem to want to make sure it is.
3 Likes
Yes I’ve sometimes wondered whether Naim could build their stuff so that they could always be updated to most recent spec as with Linn, I believe. OTOH it would appear (I’m not a customer) that Linn do not offer essential servicing such as recapping, for example, unlike Naim. Their’s would appear to be a somewhat different business model. However Naim’s way does mean that Naim products hold their value particularly well, which can take a little of the pain out of upgrading to newer stuff. I’m not convinced that, from the user’s perspective, one way of doing things is clearly preferable.
Roger
I think the issue stems from the early days of the original streamer platform. It was found then that, like with the CD players, minimising the amount of onboard processing, code, and memory was necessary for best sound performance - Naim being Naim, where sound performance is the last thing on any list ever to be compromised, duly made it that way, as it was perfectly adequate for what the streamers originally set out to achieve (local streaming from your home server). With the rise of net streaming services the original platform started to show its potential limits, one not easily fixed and best dealt with by a new platform. So in essence Naim were somewhat hoisted by their own petard, as it were, thanks to their sound first philosophy.
It’s worth remembering that the original streaming platform is not only still fit for it’s original intended purpose (local streaming first, plus the added net streaming services), but is also still supported by Naim, who will continue to do so, although with the limits I guess further development is probably not really viable. Also worth noting that where possible Naim have offered hardware upgrades for the old platform - such as the 24/192 streamer module upgrades. However, I think the changes made with the new platform were extensive and had some fundamentals that meant they could not viably be applied to the old units.
4 Likes
I’ve actually invested in both Naim and Linn in my case having both an NDX2 (previously owned an ND5 XS2 and prior to that an ND5 XS)
The logic in my case for choosing the Linn Selekt DSM to replace a capable but ageing Arcam AV amp is that the product is entirely modular and can even have specific subsystems like the DAC removed and replaced in a matter of minutes as well as the HDMI switching board and surround processing board as well.
When I went through the evaluation of what product to choose to replace my existing AV amp I looked at a NAIT + ND, a Uniti Atom and Nova and a variety of AV centric amps.
The only one that seemed to balance all my needs and give me a product I could grow in to and adapt as needed including the manufacturer making new versions of existing subsystem boards available was the Selekt and certainly when evaluated for performance alongside both an equivalent of my main Naim system (SN3 + NDX2) and an Anthem AV amp (both at the same Naim/Linn dealer) I still felt it did a very good job and performed well considering what I was comparing it against.
Something of an aside but I feel relatively confident that this investment will adapt to my needs over an extended period of ownership.
1 Like
The point being that actually it may be fixed and almost certainly won’t be at the speed required in the modern age.
…Naim knew you would still be using their wonderful Nait amp but their CD players would be obsolete. They did not want to put up with the complaints or questions coming in asking what is the CD input used for by future generations.
1 Like
Although I’m not 100% sure, it may well be that your NDX can exploit the older platform iPhone hack that worked well on the UnitiQute and SuperUniti.
Plug in your iPhone, start playing anything from iTunes, but then go over to your iPhone and manually start playing something else from its own app (Spotify and Tidal worked back in the day, so perhaps Qobuz will too). Worked also for downloaded content…
This iPod / iPhone function was a feature that was lost in the transition to the new platform, as Apple moved from local/connected playing via iDevices to Airplay; Naim had to comply, hence memory keys only now. Small consolation, I know… but maybe a tiny bit of light?
Good luck and best wishes. Apologies in advance if you know about this and it doesn’t help…
Regards alan
Indeed that is the case, especially with the streaming and digital processing circuitry.
Good or bad, this is was the BluSound app also does and is as far as I know a selling point for them. Everyone will have their preferences, and really the only issue here is that it might be nice to be able to remove the icon if you don’t need it. I don’t us the Naim app so I am relying on how others described it, but anyway removing overall Favorites is not possible in Blu either, and the configurability of the whole source panel in Blu is lacking, so I do get it (e.g., I neither need TuneIn, nor Paradiso, nor a shortcut to Music Services that I never change).
So if it is not there, I I hope that Naim adds such an option for the sake of everyone who is affected, but it’s not as if they are the only one lacking it. (And to accuse them of planned obsolescence for this, like in the OP is way OTT)
Chances are to be honest that I’ll update and not even notice!
1 Like
I have a LMS loaded onto a NAS and a PC. However, with both NAS and PC turned off the SBT still works perfectly.
The SBT is running firmware, I know this because the SBT and the LMS on the NAS are running different firmware. (Although they shouldn’t be).
I’m not able to use the SBT to select favourites in Tidal, but having done so using the Qb, the favourites appear on the SBT.
When I select a track from Tidal, it buffers for no more than a second. If I then remove the network cable, it continues playing for 2 minutes. (So no issues with lack of buffer memory).
I know people claim consumer electronics quickly become obsolete and lose functionality, but the SBT is the opposite. After Logitech stopped supporting it, some very clever enthusiasts converted the USB port (that had been designed to only be used as an input), into a digital output port for connection to a DAC. Not only that, but the resolution of the output was higher than previously possible using coaxial and optical.
It was a doddle to set up and mysteriously it was able to identify the model of the DAC connected to it. 
1 Like
You’re a star Alan33. It works a treat. And why couldn’t anyone else tell me this? Especially when I was in contact with Naim about my problems streaming Qobuz. Brings us back to where I started, questioning the motives/ethics of Naim.