All the existing PMC threads are closed. So I thought that I’d start this.
I’m close to getting the funds together for my system, starting from scratch.
I’ve heard the PMC Fact 12 Sig. at a local dealer and I’m very, very impressed with it.
It ticked all my requirements, looks great in a slim front profile, sounds superb, and the price where I live incl. a dealer discount is amazing. As in close to a Kudos 606 price.
The only concern I had was it’s inefficient at 84db.
So I’m going to factor in a Diablo 300, Pass INT 250 or similar to drive them in a largish room (8m x4m x 2m)
I like all sorts of music, but my go to is rock, pop, country, blues, Internet Radio Paradise stream and some bad 80’s recordings.
The decision is also based on the frequency adjustable switch that can + or - bass and treble.
Anyone have comments to add or suggest another speaker of similar quality to also demo. ?
The Kudos 707, Sonus Faber Nova V are roughly the same price if that helps.
I’ve heard (std F12 not sig) in two different dealers demo rooms, in first comparing against Twenty-26 and MB2SE. Distinctly better than 20-26, but seemed a big constrained, maybe a bit soundstage and in dramatics, compared to MB2. On second occasion, not comparing with other speakers, they seemed pretty good. My conclusion based on that and their diminutive frontal size was that if I ever had to move into too small a room for my MB2s (or before them my EB1s), they’d be the speaker to go for. I didn’t think about the sensitivity at the time of the first hearing, but that maybe was a significant factor. On both occasions amplification was Bryston 4Bsst2. Music was heavy rock, dramatic orchestral, prog rock, solo piano, classical chamber and opera.
I like the PMC sound and the Fact12 are very good, though i always felt they were a bit expensive for what they delivered at almost £18k. A dealer near Felixstowe has a nice ex demo pair…….price more like it.
For a similar price to a new fact 12, the Dynaudio confidence 30 is a good speaker worth demoing.
I liked the fact 12’s when i had them, but they do like good amplification, and the better you can give them will bring benefits.
In the naim world, the 300dr i would say would be the minimum i would want to use, and i did use one for a short time before i switched to the 500dr.
The only thing i found with the fact’s was they do sound a bit forced on the bass compared to a speaker with a much bigger bass driver, but i never noticed this till i had just that.
But a great speaker if a bit hard to drive.
What is the relationship between efficiency and bass extension? (Speaker drivers capable of good output to very low frequencies may often be less efficient than those less capable, but I’m unaware of any correlation suggesting that a lower efficiency speakers will be more extended.)
I demoed them with a 300DR and they didn’t sound good in my room. Control of the bass was poor and they sounded boomy. My previous speakers were 20.26’s and I love the PMC sound so I really wanted to like them. I ended up with Kudos Titan 707’s which were much better with the 300DR.
The Fact 12 is less efficient than the majority of domestic hifi speakers, by 3-5dB (i.e. less than half as efficient.)
And not all speakers are inefficient - horns typically manage up to about 105dB/w @1m (but bass horns are huge!), which IIRC is an efficiency of the order of 30%, compared to a more typical 3% or so if you want to talk actual efficiency rather than the more commonly quoted sensitivity terms.
First of all, it was not I who introduced the word efficiency into this thread, simply responding to somebody who did. Secondly, it is very common for people to use the term efficiency when referring to the conventionally expressed sensitivity of speakers. And thirdly, given that you obfuscatingly introduced the subject of speaker efficiency in absolute terms, as opposed to relative, It is rich of you to accuse me of being obfuscating and a pedant!
Usually speakers of low efficiency…are adjusted down via the crossover to give a flatter frequency respose - particularly in smaller speakers… A classic example of this approach is the LS35A, SL600 etc. With the Fact 12 they are clearly targetting as flat as possible frquency response down into 30 hz region…which is superb. Compare this to say an NS1000m at 90dB or so… and it will struggle below 40hz…but it is flippin loud!
Well ATC seem to think there is. They state that there is a trade-off between efficiency and low frequency extension, particularly for smaller speakers. This is my summary of what they say as I don’t think I can post a link here or a direct quote, but it’s clearly stated in the FAQs on their website.
Based on the components you are looking at you seem to have a substantial budget (£30k for amplifier & speakers + £? for source). If it was me with those sort of funds and looking to put together a system from scratch, I would take a holistic approach and choose a few reputable dealers which stock different brands and see what systems they could put together for me. I guess this might not be feasible for some reason e.g. location.
