Pretty much Red Rooster.
I’m in an isolated city in an isolated country regarding quality hifi dealers that actually have demo stock to listen to.
I can usually only demo. an amp. that I’m keen or a pair of speakers and very rarely at the same dealer.
Borrowing equipment to home demo. is usually not possible.
I’m waiting on a dealer to get back to me price wise for the new Sonus Faber Serafino G2.
The same dealer has the Diablo 300 and Pass stuff.
I may well end up deciding on that combo. if it is special and “speaks to me” as they say. Because I can at least hear them both at the same time in the same room and he could package deal the combo. at a better discount.
Otherwise I’d just be guessing.
As appealing as the Fact 12 Sig. is, I’d be unsure if I’d like that and the Diablo 300 for instance without at least having the both to test as a combo at the same time.
Yes, it sounds like auditioning gear is not a straightforward process.
I live in the UK and have access to 3 Naim dealers locally and another 2 within a short car journey. It’s easy to forget that many don’t have this luxury!
Starting from scratch then maybe just get active speaker’s and add a great source with a good built in volume control.
Skip the rest ??
To be honest that sounds like a really good idea. I think if you can get hold of some ATC actives (appropriate model for your room size) and add a streamer preamp (Linn, Naim, maybe Auralic) you are unlikely to be disappointed. Although of course thats just my opinion.
Unless the speakers don’t give the sound that the OP wants/expects…
“you are unlikely to be disappointed. Although of course thats just my opinion.”
Obviously the ideal scenario would be to audition a range of systems at some dealers and then narrow it down before trying the prefered system at home which he can’t really do very easily. Dunc’s suggestion reduces the amount of components in the chain and subsequently the amount of messing around he has to do in order to bodge a system together based on the views of people on here (most of whom will simply tell him to buy the speakers they have). I don’t own ATC active speakers myself but have heard them on a few occasions.
If the Pass lab and Gryphon amps, along with the PmCs don’t ‘speak to him’ then maybe he can find a dealer who has ATCs or listen to a pair at a dealers when travelling or take a punt if he is so inclined.
Just trying to be helpful and possibly worth a ponder! If he disagrees he can just ignore my comments.
The big problem is buying speakers unheard as, of all system components, they make the biggest difference to sound character, with every speaker sounding different apart from any house resemblance across a manufacturer’s range. A punt unheard (somewhere at least) is very risky unless the person has good knowledge about comparative sound relative to speakers they know. Secondhand of course is much less risky than new as losses on moving on likely to be far less. E.g where, if I hadn’t heard them, I might take a punt on a cheap enough Fact 12 based on having heard several other PMC speakers, ATC, even though I know I love the midrange unit used in SCM40 upwards, would be a big risk because I don’t know if I’d like the all-important bottom end.
I agree that buying speakers unheard is a risk. I also agree that buying them second hand (providing you don’t pay over market rate) is less of a risk as you can simply resell them with little financial loss.
I can’t really see why taking a punt on PmC speakers is less risky than taking a punt on ATC, Kudos, Dynaudio, Spendor, Neat, etc etc. We can agree to disagree.
The only possible advantage to the ATC actives is they have the power amps built in which means he won’t have to match amplifier to speaker.
Anyway, I personally don’t think discussing what speakers are the least risky second hand purchases is helpful to the chap (feel free to start a new thread if you wish).
Hopefully he will love the gear he is auditioning and all will be good.
It’s a massive amount of money and it’s essential that you hear them together. If you like it and your dealer has both, a home dem may be possible, if not at least try to hear them in a room similarly sized to yours. I certainly wouldn’t buy something just because others like it.
Agreed, you must really listen to the kit at home or a room as similar as possible.
Even then you can make a mistake. I think you mentioned in another thread that you auditioned some ProAc Tablettes at home and bought them before discovering they weren’t ideal for the room and replacing them with PmCs!
I was specifically referring to myself, being familiar with several PMC speakers, and liked only transmission line speakers since first hearing 48 years ago (and interestingly, the founder of PMC loved the old IMFs such as I used to have). And, BTW, I’ve moved two different pairs of IMF speakers each between quite a few different rooms, and only ever had a problem with one room - and that was sorted without too much difficulty by playing with speaker and listening positions, assisted by REW. My present PMCs equally have sounded good in several different locations. I’ve heard people say that transmission lines are more room tolerant than some other types - I don’t have multi-room experience with other types to be able to comment.
Or you can even just go speakers alone with something like the Dutch & Dutch 8c.
These have built in amps, streamer, room e, dsp, and are even wall friendly.
They also happen to sound great as well, especially as you can tune them to your room.
Then if you want you could add a better streamer/dac to hopefully get an even better sound.
Again just a suggestion, but one that works very well, quite cheap and very minimal in size.
That’s not quite right. The Tablettes were great with the previous stuff but I wasn’t happy with them with the Nova. It’s much easier to demo stuff here, especially as my dealer is only 15 minutes away in the car. Just tread carefully.
Fair enough! It was just that you said in a thread the other day that the reason why you enjoyed the Nova/PmC to the NDX2/XPS/Supernait/ProAcs was because you thought the PmCs were better suited to your room. I thought it emphasised the importance of matching the speaker to the room. Presumably you didn’t try the PmCs with the Supernait etc first before trading it in.
Anyway I am going off topic so will leave it there.
I think you have narrowed your speaker choices down without listening to more speakers.
To be honest, I did alot of research and bought high quality Focal Sopra 2s. Was considering Fynne Audio and other makes.
I did not do alot of demos.
ATCs are good and worth a demo.
Lots of speakers work well with Naim kit.
If the Fact 12s are ineffecient it means you need to turn them up louder I guess. Is this really an issue?
Are they compatible with your amplification? If so and you really like them get them.
Pretty much……if you really really like something, thats a big plus.
Driving the original Fact 12 with a 300DR here in a 6m x 4m room without issue, although I do have a hunch they would benefit from a bit more juice i.e. a 500DR. But I suppose which speakers wouldn’t?
I think they’re very good and I’m always shocked at how deep and extended the bass is despite their slender appearance. I’ve always loved the PMC sound going from Twenty.23 to Twenty.26 then finally the Fact 12. Would love to hear the Signatures.
Biggest downside to them is that they can be unforgiving when it comes to poor set up and I’ve had to use some minor room treatment to get the sound right.
The frequency adjustable switch has come in handy in the past when I had a smaller listening room I had to tone down the bass however I’m back set to neutral in my current room.
Hasn’t @PeterR got a pair?
My experience off fact 12’s is, give them as best amp as you can as they respond well to it.
It’s not that you just need to turn the volume up, it’s more that you need more grunt from the amp to make the drive units work at there best.
Amps like the 500dr really do make a big difference over the 300dr. You will hear the difference when you try it, i guess the new 350’s could work well and more than likely better than the 300dr can do.