Has anyone compared the two, and upgraded to the Fact12 Signature?
I have the 26i and love the detail, flexibility of positioning and flexibility of listening position. I would however like a bit more mid bass at lower volume, and possibly even more detail. Some reviews seem to suggest the Fact12 Signature are significantly better and rather than lose what I like I might just get more of the same.
Or would I be better to consider a different brand of speaker or electronics? (NAP 300DR rather than 250DR for example).
Why not use the forum search facility?
There is this recent thread, and may be others.
I have only compared Twenty26 and Fact 12, finding F12 distinctly better sounding, in a different league, though I was left with the feeling that it may be best suited to smaller rooms.
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I had the same speakers as you, and was sorely tempted by the Fact 12 speakers and decided to wait for the upgraded Signature model. However on launch they had poor finishes available that looked like kitchen worktops which put me off. They subsequently have brought out a Walnut finish.
I think you would like them if you can justify the price, though if my memory serves me correctly they like more power than your current speakers, and might need a nap300.
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Rather than looking at the speakers, I’d suggest you get hold of a 555PSDR for your NDX2. The Facts are much more suited to a 500 system, rather than your 282/250.
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Why not add a sub woofer you could probably pick one up quite cheap on eBay . Then not so much financial outlay to see if it it ticks the box first
Thank you.
I do always start by looking through the forum but it is difficult to find answers that quite match the questions you have. Some people say the 26i is a big improvement on the 26 and the F12 Signature a big improvement on the F12, so comparing like with like is difficult. The recent thread seemed glowing about the speakers, but was sounding a note of caution about the warranty I thought.
I might try. I did try with some previous speakers, but gave up as the integration seemed poor. I have read around a bit more since, so may be worth repeating the exercise.
Not so much caution about the warranty but clarity that it only applies to the original purchaser not transferable to 2nd users. I don’t in any way regard that as an issue as speakers last a long time unless something happens like an amp fault or user stupidity like swapping power amp inputs while it is on. As I said in the other thread, it shows the confidence PMC has in their speakers. My current PMC speakers are perhaps 20 years old or best part of, and working perfectly. Their predecessor PMC speakers were fine though something like 8 years old when I bought them and 17 years old when I sold them earlier this year. The speakers I had before that (IMF) were about 20 years old when I bought them and are still going strong in someone else’s system today, ~55 years old (however a supertweeter failed and was replaced at about 45 years at which point the crossover was also recapped, though not really bringing a lot of difference to the sound).
As for which would most bring you what you are seeking from the change, changing to F12 or improving the source, or improving the amp, or even adding a sub, as have been mentioned, the only way you would know for sure which is best would be by trying all! Given that in my experience the speakers are the most significant factor in the sound presentation of a system, my inclination would be to first get the speakers that sound best to me, provided the amplification is at least good enough to control the speakers adequately. (I have never heard a 250 let alone driving speakers such as these we’re discussing, but like many transmission line speakers, big PMCs like a bit of power behind them, and I would be hesitant with the OC250 based on all I’ve read.)
But going back to your indicated desires, the lack of bass from your current speakers which are renowned for being good in that department makes me wonder about the room: Before doing anything else if you haven’t already it may be well worth playing around with speaker and listening positions to see if that improves things. All that said, reduced bass at low volumes of course is a natural response of the human ear. What sort of sound level are you talking about? (dB not volume control setting.) and regarding mid range clarity, that is certainly one area where I found the F12 was noticeably better thanTwenty26. When I compared it was powering with Bryston 4B.
The Twenty25.26i are fine speakers. I would have expected them to benefit from some improvements to source or power amp.
As some others have mentioned a cd555psu on the ndx2 will bring big benefits. Also my Twenty5 24i and my Twenty 26 before them benefited from my MF Nu Vista 300 ( modified) up them.
I tried Fact 12’s with NAP300 when I was upgrading my 20.26’s and I felt it wasn’t enough. By all means demo them but I expect with a NAP250 you’ll be disappointed.
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Hi @davethevet.
The warranty itself remains as great as it every was. My thread containing a warranty warning was just to highlight the time window for registration of PMC speakers. 10 days from the date printed on your invoice (to get the full 20 years) is not long. You could agree with the dealer some mechanism that works for you both. Either to issue your invoice dated at point of delivery or after a reasonable audition time or even reissue a re-dated invoice once they become a keeper.
When I started thinking about getting the F12’s, I did talk to the sales manager at PMC regarding driving them with a 300, which I had at the time. He said they would be OK but would definitely benefit from something beefier. It may be the 250 would struggle. By the time I bought them I had upgraded to the 500 anyway so I have no experience on that.
I added a 555PS to my NDX2 when I had that, and that was a very worthwhile upgrade. As was the 250DR to 300DR. They both added more detail and increase in bass you are looking for.
Also, if you have the flexibility in your listening space, moving your chair/sofa up and down the listening axis makes a huge difference in how much bass you hear.
I’d agree with others about adding the 555PS DR. I have the same system as you (except PMC Twenty Five 26), and the 555PS added much more bass and clarity. I certainly wouldn’t consider an upgrade of speakers or adding a sub.
I mostly listen to ripped CDs on the Core, which may be contributing to the improved bass and detail as well, way better than streaming services to my ears.
Have a listen to the Kanta 2….they like the 250dr….