Thanks for taking the time to complete the measurements.
Are the phase shifts and differing harmonics potentially related to the changes we experience - have you already looked at the results in the frequency domain?
Have you also tried unplugging the network cable for a couple of minutes after taking measurements, reconnecting and repeating measurement? I ask as unplugging provides an audible improvement during listening in both soundstage and a reduction in treble harshness.
Excellent conclusions!
I’m afraid to post this in the “other thread” concerning the update.
I spent many hours going through the various posts and the overwhelming majority are negative. Here’s an interesting finding. Out of about 2,400 posts, approximately 1,100 have been made by 11 people. And they’re not happy.
I presume the “other thread” to which you refer is the “Unhappy with the new Naim update”, as opposed to the happy with? if so it is hardly surprising if the majority are unhappy! More significantly, did you count how many of the 164 different members postering were unhappy?
Nope. When 8 posters were passing the 800 mark, I decided to cap it off soon after that.
I’ve reviewed the phase shifts, and the only significant difference before and after the update is at 44.1kHz, where there’s a notable improvement in linearity. At 48kHz, there is no visible change, and at 96kHz and 192kHz, the change is minimal and hardly noticeable.
I did not test with or without a network cable, as I currently don’t have one available.
In the frequency domain, the only difference is at 44.1kHz, where there is a slightly lower cut-off frequency after the update. This is also evident in the impulse response comparison. The time difference between the apex of the first peak and the nadir of the following dip directly reflects the cut-off frequency.
Sorry for the late response.
Supporting other Forum members.
But still perplexed by Naim’s silence.
DG…
So thoughtful
Thank you, such a kind comment.
DG…
Oscillation Changes in Impulse Response at 44.1 kHz
After the update, the oscillations observed in the impulse response at 44.1 kHz have become more pronounced and shifted closer to a frequency of 13,158 Hz. Prior to the update, the oscillations were at approximately 14,085 Hz, a less hearable frequency (I have recently tested my limits and cannot detect anything above 15kHz). The new frequency corresponds to the 7th harmonic of the musical note C#6, which is often considered dissonant or undesirable (anathema) due to its misalignment with the equal-tempered scale.
This change makes the oscillation more audible and potentially more bothersome, especially to individuals with more sensitive or better hearing, who may be more likely to notice the shift and its dissonant quality.
Now what you need to do is correlate your charts to the shape of the given digital noise profile from the ARM processor I/O and memory for each software release.
You may need differential probes and a spectrum analyzer.
That would be interesting. The digital noise profile is the primary SQ variable with each software release.
Naim might even be interested.
I did something along a vaguely similar line on a voluntary basis on the network side on the first gen streamers and shared with Naim… it allowed me to develop one or two great relationships with Naim employees at the time as the gen 2 streamers were being developed. Indeed my observations/measurements I shared were mitigated or eliminated on the gen 2 streamers.
I posted this on the “other” thread, but it may be more in keeping with the approach here:
Is there a particular track or section of musc that really reveals the changeability?
Or a particlar instrument in a particular piece? A solo trumpet, piano or vocal? Track X on album Y at zz:zz?
A particular period of listening after which the sound deteriorates, or is it very gradual? I note that volume is key.
I’ve previously used GM’s Jesus to a Child to test for sibilance when auditioing headphones, for example.
That information might provide useful data for (a) sourcing the cause (which the Beta Group can feed back to Naim) and (b) evaluating the forthcoming update.
Anton, Naim are well past the stage of needing this type of feedback. Naim experienced the SQ issue themselves just days after the release of the FW (the sound went “off”), which was over 11 weeks ago I believe. So they are acutely aware of how to reproduce the ‘bug’.
I hope Naim are. But I have yet to read/hear a clear specific example that I can try for myself, both before and after any update.
Maybe I am one of the lucky ones, or not listening to the types of music most affected, or for long enough at high enough volume etc.
I guess I’d just like to understand/try to hear what has caused so much upset and so many words to be written.
I applaud your efforts. I too have posted about discovering objective reasons why these issues are occurring. And if they can be replicated to confirm them. I hope that Naim is aware of exactly what is wrong for the group that is not happy with the update.
One point that is made is that the music deteriorated as it was played. I don’t understand how this could happen. What could change in the processing of the signal to cause this?
I too would like someone to list some of the music where this happens. Also, music passages that are unlistenable. It would be very interesting for all of us if the problems can be replicated in the field.
I don’t think you are going to find a certain piece of music where this happens. For me it’s been relatively random. However, I have definitely heard the streamer go off during a track. The deterioration is quite noticeable and not something subtle. The track becomes very edgy on high frequencies with the bass getting muddy and overblown. Unplugging the ethernet cable for a few minutes can remedy the issue but not always.
It’s not just me that’s affected. A few of my friends, two with ND555’s, one with a 333 and one with an Atom are all having the same issues. All have noticed this strange loudness affect where that can’t turn the volume up as load as they use to with the old firmware.
I will add again that none of my friends use this forum and have been reliant on their dealer or me to keep them informed of what’s going on with Naim.
I guess part of my reason for wanting specific examples is to know whether I will install the forthcoming update or not. If I cannot hear a problem that others can, I might dislike the sound of the solutions that Naim comes up with.
I’d like to make an informed choice based upon what my own ears have heard from my system in my listening environment.
Thanks. Another post lists a piano recording that’s a problem. With a definition of what he’s hearing. Going to listen to that this evening.
Good set of data and correlation there @BBK, nice work.
For reference, can I ask how you introduced your reference signal for measurement, was it via reference tracks (.wav, etc.) or some other method? If reference tracks, would you be willing to share them so that I can attempt to reproduce measurements (different equipment of course)?
I should have the opportunity to listen tomorrow, so will pay attention to the sampling rate.
