Pondering an Upgrade - Source vs. Power Supply

Hi-Fi Corner
1

I’ve been spending a lot of time pondering an upgrade to my system lately and would be interested in your thoughts. My profile is up to date and it’s the analogue side of my system that I’ve really been looking at which includes: Rega P6/Ania Pro > Rega Aria > Naim Supernait 2.

The next two items on my system wish list are a HiCap DR and a Rega P8. Funds for system upgrades are limited and there’s no way I could afford both at the same time. Looking at just the analogue side of my system which would you go for first?

2

Not heard the Ania but I would definitely look at the P8 (it’s a whole new level) and next, if not together, get rid of the Aria as the P8 really shines with a good phono.
Opinions might, of course, vary but for me the HCDR would class as a subtle only upgrade and one you can do when funds are more available or some unavoidable bargain.

1 Like
3

P8 first :+1:

6 Likes
4

While Naim PS usually provide a noticeable improvement, the P8 would be more significant imo. I went from a P25 to a demo P8 Hana MH and am very satisfied with this combo.

2 Likes
5

I have a P6 with Ania and about to upgrade to P8 with Apheta which should arrive next week.

I’m expecting greater detail and depth . Dealer agrees and the says it’s a very significant step up .

Looking forward to it as I’ve been pretty happy with the P6.

1 Like
6

The Rega P8 is a lovely turntable and quite a significant step up in sound quality from the P6 in my view which is no slouch either. There are alternatives but the P8 is a quality item and I think in terms of sound versus cost is the sweet spot in the Rega TT range.

If you do get a P8 what it sits on is important it needs to be as stable and isolated as possible. Rega do a very good shelf support for wall attachment.

The Hicap DR upgrade is a worthy one too and will help lift your Supernait to another level but for me, if I had to choose I would have the P8 first.

5 Likes
7

Contrats! What phono stage are you intending to use? I’m very curious to hear your impressions if you have the inclination to check back in.

2 Likes
8

I hadn’t considered this in my plan. The Aria was a significant improvement over the Naim Stageline with the same TT setup and my thinking was that it would be up to the task with a P8.

You raise another good point. Unfortunately the configuration of my listening room won’t accommodate a shelf so my TT lives on top of my rack. I’m currently using an IsoAcoustics ZaZen 1 which provided a noticeable improvement to the P6 when I first installed it. I’ve often wondered what else I could do in terms of isolation that could provide a similar improvement.

9

@Adikt an old(ish) Trichord Dino III .

Does the job well but will likely change in due course for the Rega .

Happy to give you feedback in due course.

1 Like
10

The Aria is an excellent phono stage and a perfect match for Rega cartridges. I had a P6 with a Supernait 3 and upgraded from 6 to 8 and then 8 to 10. The gap between the 6 and 8 is very large, that between the 8 and 10 less so, but the 10 is just lovely, with its white ceramic platter and polished arm. When I had the Supernait 3 I never felt the need to add a Hicap. Assuming a 10 is out of reach, an 8 with Apheta 3 would be fantastic, and the Aria is more than up to the task.

8 Likes
11

Hi @Adikt

Good to see the Aria made a positive impression.
Genuinely think it’s a fine phono stage and will carry you forward with further Rega options yet.

Few thought that might help with your OP….

From RP6 / P6
From a stock RP6, we went on a journey and over time added NEO psu, also Exact to Ania to Ania Pro. Upgrading from MM phono to Aria too. At that point, our feeling was the RP6 platform was max’d out. Maybe you have arrived at a similar thought process with your P6.

P8 or P10 would be a logical next step. Maybe carry the Ania Pro and Aria over to next TT, to make the transition easier. It’s definitely a postive step forward, with SQ. So, would encourage this idea.

However, my experience here is a more significant progression will only be achieved - with P8/P10 - when you go to Apheta 3 or Aphelion 2. At which point, moving to P8 or P10 becomes truly worthwhile. Which is fine. Just do it in stages and enjoy the journey along the way.

In the same situation, we did a different thing. But only because my best mate ( my lovely wife ) and myself are not fond of the more recent Rega skeletal design philosophy. So much so, would maybe seek out an older style RP8 or RP10 as alternative. Anyway…

Another route forward is maybe with a different deck?
Faced with upgrading from RP6 to higher Rega decks, we choose to improve our original LP12 instead. Moving from a standard basic LP12 to a version of Linn’s Selekt level. At the time - in 2020-21 - it was a similar budget.

Rega Aria
Circling back to your Aria…
Had the opportunity to audition a new Rega Naia recently, fitted with Apheion 2 and c/w Aria phono. This was impressive. It sounded to me one of the best TT experiences to date. Obviously, an Aura was better. But my point is the Aria is a very capable phono, that might go with you to at least P8 and Apheta 3.

SN3 + HCDR
Using a SN3, we thought the addition of a HCDR was a very worthwhile improvement. Obviously, the whole system benefits and both sources. So, maybe just decide on priorities and do this, either now or later.
(Note : Caveat, forum opinion on adding a HC to a SN is divided, so maybe best to audition this step first, if you get this chance).

Separately, we have a Nait XS2, which we use with a HC2, also a great upgrade, so don’t rule out earlier HC2 units. Maybe not as bigger step, but equally, should be a lower cost too.

A third way ?
Looking at your profile, your current system, thinking about options…
So, another option forward is to add a psu to your digital sources ND5 XS2 → nDAC.
Naim psu options for nDAC are XPS, XPS DR, 555PS and 555PS DR.
So, for example, a nice XPS DR for the nDAC would take your digital source to next level.

In summary, from current system, maybe options might be

  1. Analogue source
    From P6 to P8/10, carry Ania Pro & Aria forward.
    Later, move to Alpheta 3 or Alphelion 2.
    Steps of your choice and pace, budget depending.
  2. Digital source
    Adding a psu, say XPS DR, to your nDAC.
    As budget allows.
  3. Amplifier / controller
    Add either HC2 or HCDR to existing SN2
    As budget allows.

In any order, according to your priorities and preferences, as budget allows.

Often admired your system ( which was very similar to our system as recently as 2023-24 ), also your room and that view. So, wish you luck with your journey.

Best wishes
R

edit : one additional thought - if you haven’t already looked at this - maybe think about interconnects between nDAC and Aria to the SN2. To eek out a little more goodness, add a HiLine DIN to DIN between nDAC and SN2. However, not convinced a HiLine is such an obvious improvement for analogue sources. For Aria to SN2, more inclined to use Linn Black or better Linn Silver RCA to RCA.

5 Likes
12

I have not used the zazen 1 but I have heard others say it works well enough.

One way to see how effective is to turn up the amplifier to a high volume, tap the top of the rack then the top of the zazen 1 and then the base of the TT with your finger then with a metal object like a teaspoon and listen for your taps getting to the cartridge. If the taps get quieter and less distinct as you go from TT to rack then there is some isolation but if there is little or no difference then it is not very effective. A set of tuning forks is even better but not many of us have them lying around.

We should be aiming of course for as little as possible getting to the TT and cartridge. You can then experiment with different things to see if it makes a difference. One possibility is to isolate the rack from the floor using isolation feet or plates or secure the rack to a wall at the top. It depends on your rack if this will help or not.

Soundeck isolation feet can be very effective under the rack, zazen 1 or TT they don’t cost a fortune either. I suspect they would be best under the TT but it would be worth experimenting. They usually come in packs of 3 so it may not be of use under the rack but they may do a pack of four I am not sure.

13

Sure, you may keep the Aria, it does the job and somehow appears to be an obvious easy choice for many, all good, however when you get the P8 try listen to e.g. even an entry level Whest or Avid next to the Aria and you can decide for yourself. :slight_smile:

14

Wow, thanks for the thoughtful reply! Your upgrade path is exactly what I’ve been working towards, maybe with a Supernait 3 or 282/250 out there somewhere in the more distant future. In fact, the later is the only reason I’ve held on the HeadLine 2 as I find the SN2 headphone amp to be quite capable.

I’d love to do this and have taken a hard look at a few that have come up over the last year. The ones I’ve seen so far have been a bit out of reach but maybe one of these days.

I thought about this and ended up buying a very nice used Naim RCA - DIN connector. To be honest, it was more of an emotional/lazy purchase as I have a preference to keep things in the Naim family where I can without any other really good reason. It just feels right.

I’ve already sent my dealer a note about the P8 to see what my options might be.

1 Like
15

Hey @Adikt

I was just studying all your System Pics, just now and noticed a couple of things I’d like to ask you about please ?

The simplicity of the set up is really appealing.
Less is more, et al.

First, noticed you changed the TT isolation platform, over time. You’ve already said above you now have a Zazen. What did you have before and why did you change? Can you share the benefits of using Zazen, as I was looking at this product for a Rega RP6 too.

Second, looks like the Naim boxes are “floating” on an isolation shelf - what have you done for the equipment isolation, just curious?

Lastly, loving your listening buddy - long haired GSP ?
(We’ve now had three Vizsla’s at home, over 30+ years ).

Thanks in advance
R

p.s. looking forward to hearing about your P8 doings…

1 Like
16

Hi @ratrat

My system cabinet is a just low cost Ikea hack. When we moved into the house I was trying to find something that would sit at around the same height as the window sill and this just happened to fit. It was intended to be a stop-gap and some day I’ll probably have something custom build but it hasn’t been a priority.

Working with that, I cut down extra shelves on the table saw, applied some edge banding to the cut ends, and used Vibrapods for isolation feet. These are the “floating” shelves you see in my current setup. I’d played with Vibrapods before by placing them directly under equipment. Overall, the isolated platforms were an improvement but I didn’t experiment with the effects on individual pieces of equipment.

I took the same approach with my original TT isolation platform (modified shelf + Vibrapods) and was happy with how it performed but I felt it wasn’t secure enough. We had a couple incidents where the TT slid a bit on top of the cabinet when moving it to dress cables or other work and decided to try something else. The ZaZen is much more substantial and the feet have some suction cup like properties to them so now it’s not going anywhere. My wife doesn’t like how the ZaZen looks and I removed the large oval emblem on the front in an effort to tone down the branding. If anyone is interested the emblem is just applied with an adhesive that I was able to loosen up and remove with some heat and isopropyl alcohol.

Adding isolation to my TT was a very positive step and moving to the ZaZen improved the sound incrementally by lowering the sound floor and tightening up the low end. For the cost I would definitely do it again and have even considered trying a ZaZen II for under my SN but I have a few other changes I’ll be making first.

On the pup, that handsome fellow is a three year old Wire Haired Pointing Griffon named Odin. They’re a distinct breed but similar in appearance to the Wire Haired German Pointer.

Best,

MN

2 Likes
17

Thanks for such a detailed and thoughtful reply.
It’s appreciated.

First, your unit looks great. Works really well in that room. Sounds like a lot of thought went into that idea.

Also, sounds like we think along similar lines.
You see, I’ve just had a cabinet made and was wondering about isolation shelves, Zazen or something similar, for a RP6. Maybe for Naim boxes too.

Interesting…
I’d do exactly the same. ( As we too are not so keen on the strong branding).
I was also thinking to paint them white, to match the cabinet colour. I’ve seen the feet have screws and can be removed. So maybe I’ll then spray white.

Lastly, what are your thoughts on the Gaia feet for your PMC’s ?

Very handsome dog :+1:

Thanks again
R

18

@ratrat has provides some valuable insight so i’ll try and keep mine brief.

I would do the P8 first and follow the advice that retrat has given as to where to go from there. The only question I would ask is. Will the P8 be an endgame deck for you? If not, I would consider saving for a P10. This was the advice my dealer gave to me when I was considering moving from a P3 to a P5 and it proved to be the right decision in the long run.

Here is my system for context

Rega P9 / Lyra Kleos SL / Superline
NDX / XDPS DR / UnitiServe
Supernait 2 / HiCap DR
Kudos C20 Speakers
plus a few Powerlines and A HiLine for the NDX.

3 Likes
19

I also considered something more substantial than the Vibrapods for the isolation feet. The IsoAcoustics Orea feet look good but they have a higher profile and the dimensions didn’t work for what I wanted to achieve for aesthetics. I wanted to balance the negative space beside and below the floating shelf. There are limits to what I can get approval for in the house and there are compromises to be made everywhere.

Another approach could be to try something like the Orea feet directly under the box/TT. I didn’t experiment with this but I’ve seen some positive reviews (e.g. The Ear).

It’s not a must but I also love a little tool called a Wide-Blade Scrigit for these kind of chores. It’s just stiff enough to help scrape and pry but not hard enough to damage the surface.

This would be interesting. Another option could also be have your cabinet maker build a matching platform out of a dense material (MDF or hardwood) and use Orea’s for feet. Countersinking them a bit to lower the profile and lock their position in could make for a tidy finished product.

The Gaia’s have performed very well for me on two separate pairs of speakers in the same room. I wanted to try them based on the strong reviews that seemed to be pointing towards them working well in rooms of similar construction to mine. For reference, the floor is suspended, wood framed, with plywood sub-flooring and oak hardwood. I always struggle with adjectives to describe system attributes, but I would say that with both sets of speakers they improved the detail (more precise, tighter) and soundstage (deeper, more sense of space).

Based on reviews from this forum I know they don’t work for everyone’s setup and/or preferences. I think there are a lot of enthusiasts that are curious about them though and if they didn’t work for you they shouldn’t be that difficult to sell on the used market.

Sorry for the delayed response, it’s been a busy couple days! Best of luck with the tweaking.

2 Likes
20

Thank you again.
That’s all a great help for another hifi journey and any learning passed on is so much appreciated. I’ll report back at some point.

Just to reply to one specific point. Did contemplate creating a shelf system, with isolation feet of some kind. Although, all the costs kinda lead you back to a “ready made” solution, like Zazen. And how to fill the spaces and exact dimensions available - in an entirely aesthetically pleasing way - is also a factor here. ( As you know).

Also, the room is suspended timber floor. So, Gaia’s might be a good option for our own PMC floor standing speakers.

Tweaking can be rewarding. After all, hobbies are supposed to be fun. Thanks again.

Looking forward to reading your thoughts on P8 soon.
Good luck.
R

3 Likes