Exactly it for me too… missed this crucial aspect.
I need to un-spend my time here on the Forum, so rife full of insidious poison sessions… ha ha
The thought of having a few sets of speakers to enjoy is enticing…
Boob boom… on that bank vault… soon…er than later.
Keep well. Cheers
We can agree to disagree. I think you misunderstand my point. I prefer the advantages of larger speakers but I also understand that you may prefer the sound of smaller speakers. Even assuming that the quality of the parts is equal in both situations. That’s fine. I’m not trying to convince you otherwise. My only point was that a very expensive system made to play through 1 x 5” driver + tweeter will be compromised in its output in certain respects. That is all.
“Unless you have very deep pockets, every speaker is a compromise”
What you said here is part of my argument. As we go up in price, we may compromise less”
Another thought is that what you probably prefer, when choosing your speakers at your given price, is a higher quality crossover. This i completely understand. I have heard the advantages of a higher quality crossover and can definitely understand why someone would make that choice.
Big speakers are also a real pain in the arse! The friend of mine with the collection of smaller speakers is an older gentleman and could simply not move larger speakers around.
Just reading this thread whilst listening to Olafur Arnold’s track “m”, (it is part of a Nils Frahm playlist on Qobuz) and thought it might be a good track for checking this. Appreciate genre may not suit all but there is a beat with some pretty sharp timing as well as a couple of different bass lines.
Fot me the point is that you have to integrate a sub into the system and room in such a way that it doesn’t upset the timing. That’s when everything just falls into place and the result is an improvement across the board, not just in the lower frequencies.
The problem is that this is not so easy to achieve. It may require the sub to be put in a domestically unacceptable location, or it may require room measurements and extra electronics to get it right. If this can’t be achieved, no sub at all is better than a poorly integrated one.
Which “M” exactly… It’s not on Spotify and I haven’t yet betrayed them for Qobuz… but I intend to have mistresses…
As well as the Qobuz playlist it can be found on an album called “Loon” that is a collaborative album between Olafur Arnold’s and Nils Frahm.
There is a Spotify link to it from Olafur’s album (works) homepage for said album. The Qobuz version is hires (96/24) and to me sounds better than cd or mp3.
Thank you Orac! Enjoy your music sorties…
Hope you found it and that it provided some more insight as to how the Signature 10s work as compared to other speakers with or without sub woofers.
I did… thank you…
I like some ACDC for testing duties.
I understand what people mean in preferring large speakers, they offer some obvious advantages and I’ve been through both larger speakers and trying out a sub with small ones.
High(er) end good small speakers are so special because they are masters in the act of complete sonic disappearance. I’ve had many small (and bigger) speakers and, when positioned well, these Proacs are among the best to have virtually no apparent connection to where the music is coming from - it’s just coming across from the room and every instrument or voice placed in its own spot virtually nothing to do with where the speakers are. The voices are hanging in the air. At times it sounds so real that it’s surreal. One has to really come very close to the speaker to actually “hear” it. There is no feeling of any compression at any normal volumes or anything being “forced out of them”, there is simply no box. I’ve never quite experienced this with large speakers (ok, largest I’ve had are classic Spendors 1/2 and Harbeth SHL5s).
And again, whether the little Sig10s need a sub? I think if one feels one needs a sub for them, may be they are not their best personal choice in the first place.
I would add that with small speakers like the Tablettes you need to set a high cut off frequency on the subwoofer to get a seamless integration. It means the subwoofer becomes directionnal so you have to position the sub right in the middle between the speakers to prevent unbalance. To get around this, you can use two subs placed near each speakers but at this point it becomes a little cumbersome and expensive.
Well I am experiencing that at this very moment. My largish active ATCs give me that out-of-the-box sound picture to an extent I’ve never experienced before in many decades of hifi ownership which included many, mostly small, speakers. And it was the sense of realism and tangibility: musicians there playing right before me that led me to choose them. So I have to disagree that size is a critical factor.
Goosebump territory, Roger! Happy for you… Enjoy your brutes.
Thanks for the music tip. I’m listening to the mini album from which m is taken, which has the interesting title Loon. It’s a really good album and sounds great in high res.
Interesting. I’ve found exactly the opposite. I’ve owned many small speakers through the years and none of them have had the ease and freedom from compression and strain that my current Klipsch Forte III’s have. It’s not something that is necessarily obvious until you actually change to a large speaker and then you suddenly realise what you’ve been missing. The sense of realism that a large speaker can bring is quite special. I’ve never heard this replicated in any small speaker, and I’ve owned some very good ones like Linn Kans and Spendor Classic 4/5’s.
Having said this I agree that small speakers can have their own special qualities that may be hard to come by in many large speakers like speed, lack of cabinet colouration and imaging. Not everyone can accommodate or afford large speakers and people have different listening priorities. Some people swear by LS3/5a’s - I could never get on with them although I can appreciate what they do well.
One of the best speakers I ever owned, probably the best in terms of sheer musical entertainment, was the Linn Kan. Very very hard to beat or even equal IMO for sheer fun. But terribly coloured and ruthlessly unforgiving. Still, if Linn made them again, perhaps updated for the digital age, `I would probably swap my Klipsch speakers for them. Interestingly I’ve heard of people who ‘upgraded’ to Isobariks from Kans and ended up going back to the Kans. They were very special indeed.
Oh the strain, oh the compression…Where art thou?
The track ‘Wide Open’ sounds huge! The bass just triggered the lights on my R-Com 2.5m away on the sofa…
could be our streaming platform commonality?
Enjoy! You are lucky to have the right speakers and room/setup to work well together. Not that easy and common and I would actually argue that most people just use larger speakers than their rooms require or can handle for this type of listening experience. In that sense I find high quality smaller speakers are easier. And some are better than others.
Bass is not really what I was referring to - although when you are experiencing the bass from a 12 inch LF driver with a 15 inch passive radiator you come to realise what real bass is. And it’s not anything like what you will get from a small speaker. The solidity and sheer visceral power is simply beyond the scope of anything the size of a shoebox. A kick-drum thumps you in the chest rather than producing the ineffectual ‘pop’ typical of small speakers. This is serious bass - deep powerful bass, not the overblown upper bass that many small speakers pedal to make them appear larger. And it’s lightening fast and well pitched. Sorry but you don’t know what you’re missing…
And whether one would even want that level of bass is an entirely other question…
I for instance Mostly listen to music at low volumes and night…
People seem to get overly dogmatic sometimes, and seem to feel the need to defend their choice for some reason, almost like their whole raison d’être is being questioned. There are good and bad small speakers, just as there are good and bad large speakers. Obviously a good large speaker can do things a good small speaker can’t, merely by dint of size, and I’ve long believed that a good big one will beat a good little one. But not everyone wants a big one - we are talking speakers here - and little ones are far less dominating in the room. How often do we see pictures of massive speakers squeezed in between bits of furniture, or hard against the wall in the corner? It’s all about finding something that works with the electronics and the room, and which fits with one’s lifestyle. Different strokes for different folks.