RCA to DIN Connection

Many thanks to all the other respondants and noting that there is very positive experience using the rca to din cross over cable compared to rca to rca cable in direct comparisons, so the feedback balance is now favoiring going the rcs to din csble route.

Certainly i am learning a lot and appreciating all the input and help i am being given.

I’ve checked internal pictures of a 282 and looked at the wiring of the din and rca inputs.
Noted that the cd and tuner input only dins only have three wires connected so signal left and right and common ground so only 3 pins of the 5 pin din used for unbalanced input signals.

Seems like a wasted opportunity by naim not to use all 5 pins and provide fully balanced input signals for their customers - but thats another discussion and off topic for this thread.

Also noted that the internal wiring from the rca inputs go into the PCB immediately adjacent to the din inputs with the earthing cables being routed together, so does not appear to be much difference there.

So we are comparing unbalanced rca inputs to unbalanced din inputs with the only difference that i can see is a common ground on the din input, however, the grounds of the rca inputs look connected together on the internal wiring so does not seem to be too much difference either, but then i am not an audio circuit design engineer.

The differences between rca and din inputs seem to be marginal.

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It is however I suggest the primary reason why they might be noticeable in an audio replay chain given all other elements being equal. In this context we are talking audio connections that are NOT transmission lines… so many other aspects are not relevant here.

Therefore we don’t need to over complicate with largely irrelevant differences, but point contact connections are a vulnerable point in connectors… in expensive RCA connectors one is typically paying for strategies to minimise the effects of the contact connections that audio circuits would be sensitive to.

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Hi in a stereo one way interconnect then three of the five pins are only used.

Given that Din plugs were once common in Europe in the late 50’s, 60’s and into the 70’s makes one wonder why almost every manufacturer now uses RCAs including most ‘Hi-End’ makers?

I quite like din plugs, its just that no one else seems to.

I’ve read somewhere that a significant part of it was that RCAs are easier to solder in an industrial setting.

Personally I figure in addition that although RCAs lead to more cables, at least you can easily see how they are connected. Two DINs may look the same but their connections may differ

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RCA Phono sockets were cheaper and DIN wasn’t really much of a thing in the all-important US market, so when the Japanese came to dominate the audio landscape during the '70s they used RCA Phonos. It’s worth remembering that most UK manufacturers were still using DINs right into the '80s* until almost all succumbed to fitting RCA Phonos. A few, like Naim, DNM, Nytech and one or two others stuck with them due to their technical and performance superiority.

(*I recall the first version of the Audiolab 8000A used DINs, and of course, the A&R A60 used them throughout its life).

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The term “DIN connector” alone does not unambiguously identify any particular type of connector unless the document number of the relevant DIN standard is added (e.g., “DIN 45322 connector”). Some DIN connector standards are:

  • DIN 41524, for circular connectors often used for audio signals or some digital signals like MIDI
  • DIN 41612, rectangular connectors used to connect plug-in cards to a back plane or motherboard
  • DIN 41652 D-subminiature connectors used for computer data and video
  • DIN 41585 automotive coaxial connectors

Circular connectors

A convenient multi connector to reduce the number of cables in a compromised installation.
Horses for courses use your ears. :+1:t2:

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You are technically correct, but in the context we have here we are talking about a specific DIN plug and connector as used for sources by Naim… so yes we are using ‘DIN’ as a shorthand.

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Yes, and worth remembering here that Naim only utilise DINs as connector, not as a connection standard. With Naim they are totally compatible with signals to and from RCA Phonos.

Again, here’s why DINs were chosen in preference to RCA Phonos by Naim;

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From attached above FAQ.
The first difficulty with the RCA connector is that it has a high-frequency capacitive impedance of around 200 ohms;
This is not correct I’ve tested myself as well as cross referenced and I’ve found this impedance to be 25 ohms.
From Canare.
The usual RCA connectors are not made to have a specific characterstic impedance Canare says it’s about 25 ohms.
So does not have nearly ten times the impedance being claimed.
I used my ears too. :wink:

I have always had to use a RCA > 5 pin Din 180 to connect my valve based DAC to my Naim preamp.

I completely subscribe to the Naim route of using Din as RCA connectors are sub optimal according to many reports I’ve read. Just take the example of a BNC cable at 75ohm. Experts say you cannot achieve this in RCA for the very reason that was suggested earlier.

What I would like to know is what Din socket is used on source devices like for example on the NDAC?

I was hoping to have this fitted on my source components so that I can begin using the hi-line cable instead of custom cables I’ve been using.

When I did my due dilligence before committing to Naim hi fi I heard that DIN is their preference because it is the electrical standard for signal and has better star grounding than rca

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On YouTube look at the last five minutes of “how high end audio is made- factory visit naim audio” and u will hear Jason car explain why din is superior to rca for hifi

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Indeed I remember it well, my first stereo amplifier used them as did our tape recorder and later cassette deck. As an impatient teenager, soldering leads on to the mono 3 pin variety of plug was ok, I was less keen on the fiddly 5 pin plugs required for stereo to and from tape machines.

And it’s untrue.

Sadly Julian is no longer around to argue with you on this.

No argument just facts.
Easy to test.
Too many excuses for cheap and compromised connectors.
I love my Supernait 3 but had I not had the choice of connection it would have been another brand. :+1:t2:
By the way the guy in the video is called Jason.

To help us learn I think it would be better if you could describe what was better about your RCA interconnects than the Din alternatives?

Also how was the test carried out?

@NeilS should be able to advise on the part Naim use here.