Real Power into 2-2.5Ohm amp by naim

Good post BailyHill.

I recall that power = (I squared) x R (and P= I x V) where I is current & R is resistive load, so yes as the resistance lowers, the current will increase for any given power.

Hence listening at high volume may lead to overload and damage. Thanks for reminding me of the Krells, capable of driving virtually any load.

Here is a power cube of the NAP300 from a test in the Swedish Magazine “Hifi & musik”.
The red grid represents the specified power output 90 W in 8 Ohms.
It seem capable!

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I also think it can.
not like the 500 series, but still pretty well.
Richard says here that nap 500 would be the one that may have some trouble.
but it seems 500 can handle the Chimeras in real world condition.
I think, also after talking with people that have experience in both Naim and WB that 252 and 300 can do a pretty good job, but Chimeras also like bi amp, so probably is better 252 and 250 x 2,
or of course a bi amp with 2 x 300.
I also think that a 282 with 250 or 300 can handle chimeras, not as good as the previous system, but also this one still pretty well.
As @Fernar says, I probably look at 252 300, only for the box count and cable jungle.

This is not to discredit all the things others say, most if not all true, just to add my and others people’s thoughts.

In my opinion it would be intriguing to make a double blind test about the difference between 282 250 and 252 250, or the same with double 250 in both systems.

Probably the 252 have the edge, but for how much?

And in a double blind test, is the different so evident?

Probably more the system is capable and more the 252 would have the edge, but still, is that so evident?

Or you need a careful listening and a lot of track you know well in a room also familiar to discover this?

The test with 300 is less fascinating for me, because it is more likely easy that 252 with 300 can perform much better than 282.

blind and (better) double blind tests can destroy audiophiles’ certainty, but this is reality, and not speculation.

With respect for all people here and anywhere that may think in a different way.

Ouch that M2 has a nasty impedance response curve…
Most passive amps/cables are going to compromise with that I would have thought to varying degrees producing colouration.
I suggest such a speaker is best driven actively bypassing its crossover.

To me it’s not the dips or peaks that are significant, as these are resonant points and dips here are simply more resistive than complex impedance and will be down to amp driver stage robustness, but it is the phase swings and steep impedance slopes that an amp will need to manage That would concern me, especially near the mid frequencies.

About WB and crossover:
"At the 1994 Frankfurt High End show, Wilson Benesch launched its first loudspeaker, the A.C.T. One loudspeaker.

The A.C.T. One would be a phenomenal success for the company. It was developed through strong collaboration with numerous leading engineers from a variety of fields, including advanced composite engineering and acoustic design.

Like the turntable preceding it, the design was radically different from anything seen to date. The A.C.T. One design departed from the ubiquitous square box design dominant in the market at the time. It introduced the world’s first curved carbon fibre composite panel to loudspeaker design, along with a sloping top and a solid metal baffle that had also never been seen in any loudspeaker previously. Acoustically, the design placed a significant emphasis on phase coherence and therefore the reduction of complex crossover elements. To date, this remains a defining element of the company’s design ethos and has been maintained in all subsequent products, ultimately leading to the crossover free loudspeaker designs implemented in the brand’s reference series today."

On a 1983 Naim Audio document.
Naim Audio amplifiers are indicated to tolerate loads from 0 ohm to infinity, without damage or instability, as the output stages are protected by a circuit that measures the dissipated power ( SOA ). In addition, when extended operation under high thermal conditions brings the temperature of the case above 70°C, the power supply is interrupted until the amplifier has cooled down.

Yeah, tolerate but also not playing music :slight_smile:

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Hi Fran,
I can confirm from experience that the ACT and Discovery speakers from about 8 years ago ran really well when driven by either a NAP300 or better still by a pair of NAP135 power amps.

However, adding a Torus improved the perceived bass response, emotional engagement, mid range clarity and imaging ability of both the ACT and the Discovery to a quite startling degree, so long as you could find a home for the somewhat large Torus.

Hope this helps, BF

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@Bluesfan thank you,
can you tell me which Pre do you use, if it is a naim.
maybe explain better the system you used (or with you are familiar),
are new one (with DR?) in both the case, or with 135 you use old naim?
Nap 135 is only an old model right?
chrome bumper or olive, am I wrong?
and also what is the difference between 2x 135 and 2 x 250?
You really help (me and anyone read this with the same question), thanks again.

Did you listen without SOA and with SOA ?
We made comparisons with Naim Allae Nap 180 speakers. In our opinion we did not perceive any notable differences on the foundation of music and expression.

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No, I interpreted it as it shuts down at some point, apparently wrongly.

Really interesting. 10 years ago, my local dealer demoed Magicos almost exclusively with Krell. As you say, Krells were happy with the low impedance speakers.

Magico are reported to have been migrating to friendlier profiles. And the M2’s I’ve heard with a Gryphon 300; sounded fabulous. I ASSUME that they’d also be just fine with 552/500DR; any thoughts based on your knowledge of the theoreticals and practicals, given that curve above?

Hi Fran,
Back then, we used a 282/Hicap and this was before DR for any pre-amp power supplies.
It was the dealer’s pre-amp. I subsequently bought a NAC52 to go with the NAP135 monoblocks.

The classic (i.e. black) NAP250 also drove the WB speakers, though the NAP135s showed their legendary ability to grip & control a speaker better than the NAP250.

To these cloth ears, a 250DR is a much more capable and above all musical amp than the black 250-2. The 300DR is really quite special.

Best regards, BF

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Hi Bluesfan,
If you have to choose between old 52 supercap 135 and new 252 supercapDR 300DR.
What is your choice?
Is the SQ difference big?
Also considering that anyone say to me WB really appreciate biamps.
Best Regards, f.

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