Roon endpoint for Roon trial?

I plan to start a Roon trial using my ASUS laptop as Core, plugged into my Router or one of my Cisco switches.

I would probably buy a Sonore SGC upnp Bridge box to run as an endpoint permanently if the trial is a success.

But what would the endpoint be in a trial?

Can it be my laptop?

I have no NAS, no digital library (except a couple of test files bought on Qobuz) - all I want to do is see whether I get better SQ streaming Tidal and Qobuz via Roon.

But without a Roon bridge such as the Sonore one I mention above, will I even get Roon RAAT sent to my Naim 272 streamer/DAC/preamp?

And will I be able to play with Roon DSP functions such as room correction, convolution, etc?

Laptop spec is Intel i3-32172 CPU @1.8GHz

4GB of installed RAM - of which only 3.9 GB is usable according to the laptop’s Settings info (!)

and it has a 64 bit operating system and x64 based processor

If you have the roon core on your laptop it can’t be used as an endpoint.

Ah - I thought so.
So what is the easiest way to do the trial?
thanks
Jim

It seems Im wrong. Look here for the different software. You can have core, endpoint and control on your laptop
https://roonlabs.com/downloads

I am confused about roon Core.

I have setup a Roon Rock Server (Linux based roon Core only) and I can run Audio as a zone off of it.

I can even have my phone as an audio output zone that I run the controller software on.

Maybe double check on the Roon Forum, but I don’t know why Roon Server can’t also be an output zone.

Ray
That link is as clear as mud in relation to Endpoints, which is what I and surely many others need to know about before they start their trial.
It’s one of the worst websites I’ve seen.
They do not in any way explain how and what to connect to what to get a Naim 1st gen streamer (and many other streamers) working.
It bodes ill for the service if that’s how useless the download trial explanation is.
Just for the record, I’ll include the offending text below.
If anyone can explain what it means, I’d be fascinated to know.
Jim

Software packages

Roon is offered in a variety of software packages to accommodate your setup. Whether you are running Roon on one computer, or need to stream audio to multiple rooms across several devices, you can use this overview to find the right versions of Roon for your configuration.

It’s a good idea to check How Roon Works before continuing here, as it’ll explain the concepts below.

After reading the below, visit our downloads page to get started with your installation.

Roon

✓Control ✓Core ✓Output

An all-in-one solution that includes control, core, and output functionality. Choose this package if you only have one computer that manages your music library and connects to your audio outputs (wired via USB or over the network).

NOTE: This package requires OpenGL 3.0 to run the custom graphics engine that powers Roon. If your machine does not support OpenGL 3.0, as an alternative you can install Roon Server and control it with Roon Remote on your mobile device.

Roon Server

✓Core ✓Output

Roon Server is for those who want to install Roon on a machine with no monitor or graphical interface. This machine will still manage music library and audio outputs, but because it has no graphical user interface, it requires another device for control. After installing Roon Server on your headless machine, you can install Roon Remote on your mobile device or laptop to control Roon Server. You can read more about Roon Server here.

Roon Remote

✓Control ✓Output

Installing Roon Remote on a supported iPad or Android tablet allows you to control Roon or Roon Server using Roon’s rich, immersive browsing experience. Roon Remote does not include core functionality, but it can connect to a Roon or Roon Server on your network. You can read more about using Roon remotely here.

NOTE:You can also run Roon Remote on another Mac or PC, just install the Roon app and choose to run as a remote during setup.

Roon Bridge

✓Output

Roon Bridge can be installed to add audio outputs to your setup over the network, perfect for multi-room configurations. You can read more about Roon Bridge here.

But then you have to go to a totally different page to find out what they mean by their term “outputs”. Nowhere are ‘endpoints’ mentioned (except at the very end under one particular audio equipment manufacturer).

Output

Outputs are devices that make noise.

Roon is built from the ground up to run a multi-room audio system. Whether you have one output or a dozen or more, we have you covered.

Our playback engine is built for audiophile quality playback of standard and high-resolution audio content to a wide variety of output devices.

Our RAAT streaming technology moves bit-perfect streams to Roon Ready networked devices and outputs connected to devices running Roon, Roon Server, or Roon Bridge.

Roon supports many different kinds of output devices, including:

  • Roon Ready Networked devices.
  • Connected outputs, including USB DACs, sound cards, and built-in outputs
  • AirPlay devices
  • Logitech’s Squeezebox devices
  • Meridian Audio’s networked endpoints
  • HQPlayer

For a more comprehensive view of our output support see here: Partner Devices Matrix

the text is perfectly understandable I dont understand your issue.

Also I see no reason not to have a server and player on the same device.

The problem I guess for those not really into all this, is infact roon is very versatile, how they explain to the average joe that roon will basically play out of a potato or your high end hifi without getting technical is difficult.

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I think you can use your laptop for both, but you will need a USB to Digital converter to then feed your Naim equipment (for the trial). I doubt your analog out of the Laptop will sound any good.

Roon uses its own protocol which is not supported in the early Uniti Range.

The Sonoe Upnp Bridge works. I think that there is also a free LMS add-on to do the same.

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Jim, download, install, register and run it. It really does sound more complicated than it is. All you really need to do after install is tell it where your music is stored, thats it.
It can be as complicated as you like but just to set it up and get it running is easy.

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Hi @JimDog,
I also found the terminology confusing before I embarked on my Roon trial towards the end of last year.
The kind help and advice I received on here plus plenty of reading was invaluable and got me up to speed.
I would probably draw parallels to how I got up to speed on my Naim journey and streaming.

Anyway, that aside, let me try and give you a short explanation as far as I understand it.

A legacy Naim streamer such as your 272 or my NDS needs to have a workaround to be able to work with Roon. I have the Sonore UPnP Bridge, which you also mentioned, this is the most straightforward way and was fairly simple to set up, but there are others that make it possible.
Streamers that are Roon ready, such as the Naim streamers from the new platform do not need a workaround and are good to go as an output (I think that’s the same as an Endpoint by the way) straightaway.

Next, you need a Roon Core. Mine came built in on my Innuos Zen, you are looking to install on your laptop. There are minimum recommendations quoted on the Roon website/support. I do not know if your laptop would run a Core ok. What I can say is that people told me that the processor in the Zen would not be powerful enough to run Roon reliably. I have found that to be absolutely not true in my case. If I were to make an extensive use of DSP via Roon, maybe my experience would be different.

So once you have your Core, and maybe your 272 enabled for Roon, you are good to go.
In my case the Zen powers Roon, and I can playback all over the house on my NDS, iPad, any of my smartphones, my PC, or smart speakers that have Roon compatibility.
That play anywhere in the house on all my devices I find brilliant, all controllable from iPad, smartphone, PC etc, enabling single room or multi room capability with different product makes.
In your case, without enabling the 272, that might just be your laptop, but is probably any other device you have in your possession.

Hope this helps explain a little?

For sound quality reasons Roon don’t recommend using the Core as an end point as well.

I would do as @raym55 suggests first and gt it going and then see if you can get lms-to-upnp to run to allow you to send the music to your 272 via UPNP.

This will then be a valid test for you and you can then look at creating a ‘production’ version if you decide this is the way forward.

As I have said before, with Roon and QoBuz/Tidal I hear no difference between these services and local music when using Roon and lms-to-upnp with my NDS.

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Hi Chris

Thanks - we have similar interests.

I have spent a lot of my life skateboarding, snowboarding, surfing, biking, climbing, jumping out of planes - and listening to music.

Your summary is spot on - but unfortuntely I already knew all of that.

My exasperation with Roon’s description of the trial process and with the hoops needed to try it are the next steps on from where your summary ends.

Some of those questions are:

  • How come everyone talks about endpoints, but Roon uses the term outputs in its sign up process?

  • How come hundreds of people rave about the SQ uplift they get from adding Roon to their systems, but then hundreds of others users and non-users swear that there is no SQ uplift, and that Roon is just a better way of managing your music?

  • How come Roon don’t tell you clearly at all that you need much more than just a PC to do a proper trial of Roon? Because if I do a trial of Roon with a really sub optimal PC and no Bridge device I will not actually know what the end result could be if I did it properly - and I’ll probably end up wading through tons of IT problems trying to get an LMS-to-UPNP software band-aid solution just to make the trial work?

  • How come I have to buy a Sonore UPNP Bridge box from the U.S. and wire on a UK plug, and perhaps find that by the time it gets through customs my Qobuz trial has ended anyway, so I cannot even perform tha main test I need to do - and then I have to either buy Qobuz and Roon to try them - and/or sell the box?

  • And how come the Roon site tells me that my i3 pc chip will run basic Roon services - but I strongly suspect that it won’t run it nicely as it’s old and knackered and probably the RAM is choked up with slushware?

Also, if I spend all that dosh on a Zen then I may as well get an ND5XS2 or an NDX2 - but then I have to smash up my whole fron end and take the 555DR off my preamp too.

I share these rhetorical Qs not solely to vent my spleen about how fiddly the process is, but as a potential aid to other readers of this thread who are planning to do this.

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Jim, I really feel that you’re overthinking this. It’s not that hard to set up. Just do the trial, then keep it if you like it, or cancel it if you don’t. Roon support are helpful and responsive. They will guide you through the setup process if you get stuck.

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Perhaps just stick with vinyl.

I am not very IT savvy, I did try to get Ropiee working on my RPi as the end point for a trial, but I couldn’t get it to work, I didn’t find Roon support helpful partly because they seem to assume that you have a level of computer skills, in the end I lost interest, (I think they did too!). I was never totally convinced that I needed the features of Roon anyway so perhaps it was doomed from the start. I didn’t really want to spend a lot of money on a ‘ready made’ end point just so that I could experience the 14 day trial. I guess I just lacked commitment!

And that was the end of my Roon experience.

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Jim

I would suggest just loading the all in one solution on your laptop and give Roon a try from there using headphones as output from laptop.
The main difference I have seen and heard is primarily the presentation of the music rather than the sound. Give the interface a try, it seems to be a bit Marmite.
If you like it sufficiently then set up lms2upnp to try input to your 272. It is well documented here how to do this. All this is at no cost so no loss.
I personally did not see a great gain in SQ but I do prefer interface which combines my own library along with Qobuz and Tidal. I did find going back to Naim app a real pain. Using Roon I can have same interface across Naim 272, Dac V1 and Sonos throughout the house.
Hope this helps, I do agree with ChrisSU re overthinking hence my suggestion to check out interface first before you waste any more effort or money.

CK

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That’s a pity. I had a long slog to get Roon working with my main and sub systems. In particular trying to get the LMS2UPnP software to work.
First, decided to buy a dedicated music server and move my music from a NAS onto it. I choose an Audiostore device, which I’ve set up to feed an NDS.
Second, I tried to tackle how to feed the music server to a series of Unitiqutes doted around the house. I had no luck with LMS2UPnP on my NAS (lack of competence on my part). I then tried RPi, but with only partial success (it worked for 30 minutes or so before crashing). The next step was to add a HAT. This was successful with Ropieee, but only served one Unitiqute. I then ordered another RPi to use with another Unitiqute.
Third, In the meantime, I had the idea to try the LMS2UPnP software on my laptop. This works brilliantly - I can use Roon with all my Naim systems - why did I not try this first?
This experience lasted 10 months, there was a lot of pleasure mingled with frustration, but it was worth it in the end.

I had tremendous support from this forum, Martin Smith at the Audiostore, and from friends who talked me through setting up the RPis.

There was a massive improvement in SQ, not down to Roon directly, but when I introduced the music server. I can’t hear the difference between using Roon and Minim on the server. But the music derived from my NAS is a retro step in SQ.

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Thanks Roog - I’m in the same boat, so that’s helpful to know.

I am interested in Roon only on a possible SQ basis, not at all for it’s info and organizing functions, which I can do myself without all the faff and cost.

Apologies to all the helpful souls who I keep asking the same Qs to over the years (e.g. ChrisSU and TrickieDickie et al)!

One day I’ll find someone locally who has Roon working well and be allowed to actually go into their house and play with it - that’s would help me decide whether to invest in it.

Thanks CK
I don’t have a NAS, any digital files (except a hires copy of Bitches Brew on Qobuz) or any multiroom stuff at present.

All I’m really after is the SQ implications and I doubt that your suggestion will resolve that Q.

Thanks Huw - that’s a great result, and a testament to your determination and how great this community is.

Does your main system sound better as a result of having Roon?
Do you use any DSP and do you stream from Tidal or Qobuz?