Thanks Robert.
Thanks to your “anon” notes, I finally can make it work.
now the NDS saying “Streaming from MLS”
Will they convert to WAV or in FLAC?
Check in the extension options in roon, i think you can switch between pcm and flac.
Just uncheck the FLAC compression, ow is converted into PCM, neat.
Does anyone know how to move the command to my QNAP NAS as RoonCore so I don’t have to use my MAC?
Appreciated.
You can run the UPNPBridge as a plugin to Logitech Media Server (LMS)
LMS can be run within a container on a QNAP. It’s what I have used for 2 years and it generally works very well.
Another new way is the rooUPnP which has just emerged, there are details on the Roon forum. This requires a Raspberry Pi and the payment of a small licence fee. Installation is a doddle, just download the image and create an SD card, pop it into the Pi and start it up. Then just setup your maximum resolution for each discovered device within the Extensions area in Roon.
I’ve switched to rooUPnP and am finding it to be excellent. The developer is very responsive too.
so I need to purchase a Rpi card/box in using the RoonUnp.
Is there any advantage over the all software approach?
Can you share how to create a container in QNAP to install the upnp scrip that will be much appreciated. I am using a TS-251A with 4.5.2 firmware.
The all software approach is more complex to implement but saves as you don’t have to buy more hardware. The Pi solution is really straightforward hence my recommendation as an alternative approach.
For installing in a container.
If you Google " Installing Logitech Media Server (SlimServer / Squeezebox Server) On QNAP" you will find a step by step guide to installing LMS on a QNAP. This gets LMS running in a container.
Then you need to configure:
- Once installed click on the link within Container Station to open LMS
- Skip the account setup stage and the music library setup (not required to use the plugin).
- Click on settings, and then Plugins.
- Untick all plugins and tick UPNP/DNLA Bridge. This ensures you only run what is necessary
- Allow LMS to restart
- Click Settings, for the UPNP/DNLA Bridge
- In the Extra Command Line Options enter -s ip_address_of_roonserver - This tells LMS where Roon is located
(make sure you change the IP address to your Roon Server’s address) - Select the Static Library and click on the checkbox to start
- Once started, click on the Generate button on the Configuration File line to create a config file
- Next you need to edit the config file. To do this you will need to download WinSCP which will allow you to reach area’s on the QNAP that the FileStation app won’t allow.
- Download WinSCP and install it
You need to enable SSH access on your QNAP from the control panel
(make sure you change the IP address to your Roon Server’s address)
- Use WinSCP to connect to the QNAP (use your admin login, same as you use to administer the QNAP in a browser).
- Locate the Config file by browsing in WinSCP. The path is shown in the LMS configuration page
- When you have found the file in WInSCP right click the file and choose Edit
- Find the line
<roon_mode>0</roon_mode>
and change to
<roon_mode>1</roon_mode>
Do the same for the <sample_rate>192000</sample_rate> line - Save and return to the LMS Config page. Click on the Restart button to restart the bridge
Hi Trickydickie,
I am at the point where to add the extra command line of where the Roonserver is.
Do I need to download the Roonserver for my case? or is it the IP for my streamer (NDS)?
You can’t run Roon without a Roon server or Core as it is known.
The IP referred to is the Roon Core’s IP address so once you have that you should enter it in as shown.
If I am running Mac OSX, is there other similar app to WinSCP?
If I am using NDS, and planning to use QNAP to store the Upnp bridge file and use my phone/ipad as Roon interface, what is the Roon server/Core I am suppose to use as? (I don’t need a music server as I already have Core)
The Roon core is the heart of Roon. You need a Roon Core to run Roon.
If you are familiar with running a UPNP server the concept is very similar, i.e. you have a server, player and something to control it.
It appears I am not alone in how complex this can be, and the tech knowledge required, particularly without a hardware solution.
As part of this I am now confused how something like a Raspberry Pi fits in physically with a system?
I currently have Asset running as my server on my iMac which h is on the same network as my NDX & WD MyCloud Drive. WD does have its own server software and is in effect a NAS, but it is not good with WAV files & hence why I run Asset.
NDX then feeds 202 into 200 and speakers.
So how can use the Raspberry Pi? I did see some suggest to run UpNp bridge software on it, but I was still not sure how this would have fitted in a linear or networked way into the system.
I know that Roon will not run on ARM (Pi) so that would still need either a hardware or Core on my iMac.
So could the Pi hold the server for example, Asset & the bridge software…without physical connection to to NDX? I think this is what some posters had suggested.
Some posters then spoke about HiFiBerry…which also left me questions? Could you run a HiFiBerry with as NAS?..Then if you added a DAC could you then output directly to 202 or do you use the NDX as a pass through (without DAC), but this would not make sense to me…
Ultimately could a Pi or HiFiBerry handle the NAS, Streamer & DAC functions…i.e replace the NDX…( I don’t want to open a can of worms with the purists on power supply’s & SQ at this stage!)
I suppose what I looking for are simple line suggestions of what inputs into what & how, either physically or via the network.
In the bridge configuration the Pi is receiving the music from the Roon server and bridging or transmitting it on to the Naim streamer. This overcomes the limitation that Roon cannot communicate with UPNP devices, only ones that directly support Roon.
To bridge you can either use
- Dedicated hardware bridge - e.g. Sonore UPNP Bridge
- Bridge software running on a computer or Raspberry Pi
To serve Roon you need a Roon Core. This is a bit like a UPNP Server and would take the place of say Asset or Minimserver if you currently use these.
You can run Roon Core on a variety of devices, e.g. Mac, Linux computer, Windows Computer, some NAS devices (not recommended by Roon), a Roon Nucleus or a Roon Rock which is a dedicated device that you can put together. There are some other devices you can use so this isn’t a complete list. Note: You cannot run Roon Core on a Raspberry Pi.
To use a bridge a typical setup is shown below, obviously you would have other devices on your network and a device like an iPad that you would use to select your music.
You can see that everything is interconnected on your network. Nothing connects directly to the Naim Streamer except for a network connection.
There are means to use a Raspberry Pi as a Roon endpoint. A Roon endpoint is just a fancy name for a streamer. You could for example but an end point with a digital output that feeds into the DAC in the Naim streamer.
Personally I would use a bridge solution as the performance of the Naim streamer is left untouched as it is unaware that Roon is sending the music to it so it will perform as it does now from a sound quality perspective.
Hope this helps
Hi thank you so much for the schematic, it was exactly what I was looking for, and clearly explains how it is all set up.
I have ordered a Pi 4 and will attempt to get a UpnP bridge running on it (I could net get my Pi B+ to work).
I will go back through the thread and pick ups the bridge options & instructions for doing this on a Pi rather than the iMac.
Many thanks,
Andrew
Just wondering, have you been able to do any comparisons of the two approaches, I.e. separate Roon endpoint feeding the NDS’s DAC directly vs. Roon bridge enabling Roon input to NDS via Ethernet streaming? There was some discussion about this (SPDIF digital input vs Ethernet input) on the previous Naim forum, rather than this newer one, which suggested the streaming section of the NDS might be a bit of a weak point and better results can be obtained by bypassing it using an external streamer into one of the digital inputs.
I’m curious as I have a bit of a road-map plan to pick up a pre-loved NDS so I can do some comparisons with my nDAC, both devices fed from the USBridge+Digione Signature I’m currently using as a Roon end-point, I.e. with NDS used purely as a DAC. I’ll probably wait until I’ve 555’ed the nDAC, so as to allow the NDS full advantage of the twin burndy connections.
Seriously though, the best option for most, if you are truly committed to Roon and keeping an older Naim streamer esp considering what a Naim streamer cost originally, or even used, is the SonicOrbiter Bridge (about $250 I think) or a used Sonore microRendu (or the new 1.5 model for $399). The cost of a few dinners out (of which one has probably saved over this last year). But the Pi/RooUPNP solution looks to be a good one, but if one wants a more plug and play solution, the two above are the best.
As you are getting a Pi I would suggest that you take the easy way and try the new rooUPNP Roon extension that runs on a Pi.
All you have to do is download it, use a program to create your SD card, stick it in the Pi and switch it on. Then you go into the Extensions area in Roon and configure your Naim devices to the correct resolution, i.e.
Max Sample Rate: 192000
UPNP Audio Format: FLAC Upto 24 Bit
Then you will be good to go.
You can find it on the Roon forma and whilst the product is in test there’s a free code that will let you evaluate it. There are currently some bugs but it will get you going.
No I haven’t done any comparisons. I actually have avoided just using it as a DAC, preferring to use it as intended, i.e. a UPNP streamer.
No problem. From what I gather, the big improvements in the new streamers have come about by improvements in the streaming module. You never know, by bypassing the streamer in the NDS entirely (using a quality external streamer), you could be bringing it closer to ND555 territory 