You are spot on @Alley_Cat just output from what I understand also, I should have made that point. I agree it would be nice to be able to run Roon on ATV, but I guess they are just iPads in boxes. Positive is that there a plenty of options available in place of Nucleus for @Ansgar to consider.
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I think I will cancel TIDAL now and switch to Qobuz. It just sounds better and clearer and brighter.
My next important question now is:
I would like to use Roon in addition to Qobuz. I have now read a lot about it, but do not quite understand the hardware area yet.
My wishful thinking is the following: I subscribe to Roon and control everything via the Roon app and listen to the music via Qobuz. My music so far is 10,000 tracks on an external hard drive and most purchased through iTunes.
Now do I really need a Roon Core or will it work without? I don’t want to have to buy an expensive device just so that my old music is somewhere, but then I only stream mostly new music via Qobuz and I get new suggestions from Roon.
A problem would also be for me to leave a PC extra always on. Does that really have to be?
I just want to use the diversity of Roon and get everything comfortably displayed.
Please tell me what is the best solution for my wishes.
I’m afraid that you do need to run a Roon core. The ‘easiest’, but most costly way to do this is with a Roon Nucleus device which is basically plug ‘n’ play from Roon. However, this would be far too expensive and I wouldn’t recommend it.
I do not know what you would consider to be too costly, but in my opinion the best way to implement Roon is via an Intel NUC device (something like an 8i5) on which you install Roon’s proprietary core + Linux operating system (called ‘Rock’). Roon Rock is available as a free download from Roon, so the only expense would be your Roon subscription and the cost of the Intel NUC (probably around £400 at new prices).
The Intel NUC would have to be left on whilst you are using Roon, but it is an extremely low power use device and it would be dedicated to Roon. I leave mine on more or less 24x7.
One of the huge advantages of using Roon is that it will integrate your music library (locally stored albums/tracks and albums you have selected as favourites (added to your Roon music library in Roon speak) from Qobuz. Just one of many features that have massively enhanced my music listening and selection process. I would now find it really difficult to use anything other than Roon as my music listening control.
Edit: You would also need to have a Roon ‘end point’ in your system. You haven’t given details of your system in your post. Some idea of your music playing system (or systems) would be needed for further advice. Many DACs or streaming devices (including those from Naim) are Roon ‘Ready’ or ‘Tested’ - which streaming devices or DACs do you currently use?
Roon only works if you run the software. The software itself is free but only works with a subscription currently roughly £90 paid yearly. You need a computer to run roon core. Windows or Mac or Linux. On Linux it runs 100% as a service. In other words you use something else as the remote. That can be another computer (but not Linux) or your phone or iPad. On windows and Mac the core has a gui so it is a proper application. You could always run roon whenever you want to listen to music. Exactly the same way as iTunes; stop iTunes and you can’t play your music. I imagine most roon users have it running permanently on a computer but you don’t have to do this. I have it running permanently so I don’t know if there would be delays before you can hit play if you only run it intermittently.
He has a mu-so 2.
Thanks - I obviously missed that. The Muso 2 is of course already a Roon end point which simplifies things, and so all that would be needed would be the device that hosts the Roon Core (eg an Intel NUC running Roon Rock).
It’s just a shame Qobuz software is quite poor if you want to also use it outside of the Naim app. (It does also have some limitations within the Naim app but works fine.)
The Android app is especially bad - I’ve been reporting the same bugs now for nearly two years but never seem to get much progress.
Recently as well I keep getting signed out of all my Qobuz apps, via Naim app, iOS and Android and when I try to sign back in it says my password is incorrect. So I reset it and can sign on successfully on a PC through a browser but on no other platform. It seems to take about half a day for the passwords to update on all the platforms.
I’ve reported this twice to Qobuz and am waiting for a sensible answer.
I have an old notebook, this one fell off years ago. Since then, the screen no longer works. But I still used it until today, because it had a drive, for example to borrow and rip CDs from the public library.
That would no longer be necessary in the future with a streaming provider.
In addition, I have a 4-year-old Samsung Tablet S2. Now my idea was to buy for example a Windows Surface with a keyboard that I can separate from the device, a 2 in 1 device so.
Then I can work in the office normally with a good keyboard and write and surf the Internet and also sit in the living room without a keyboard and use the Surface as a tablet and then listen to music via the Roon app and then have a good and especially large display in the app.
So. then I would need a NUC!?
Can you still explain to me what it is exactly and how it works. If this is completely separate from the Surface, then I have no problem with it being on all day, like a fridge for example. What does the device look like? I don’t want it to clutter up my living room. My question: the office and my WiFi router are on the 1st floor and there I would like to put the NUC then where and hide it. Is that possible or is it important that the distance between Mu-so 2 and Roon App via tablet and the NUC is as small as possible?
Is there a step by step guide somewhere on how I set up Roon? What things do I need to do first, what after? What program or tool do I use to get my 10,000 tracks from my external hard drive (accessed via iTunes so far) to Roon or a PC or NUC or whatever?
Does Roon have this user guide on their website or are there similar posts here on the Naim forum?
Thanks for your help and your numerous tips.
How Roon Works - Connecting Roon to Your Music Server & Devices (roonlabs.com)
Roon core does not run on a tablet, you need a proper computer. Only the roon app will run on your Samsung Tablet S2. Which is fine.
Typical NUC - they are small.
It doesnt come with memory or disk storage so minimum you will need to add e.g. 8 gig of memory and 256 SSD. You will need to open the case and plug these things in.
Then install windows or linux. Linux will be free, you’ll need to buy Windows 10. On linux, roon runs as a service, there is no GUI, you cant see anything. But it is simple to install if you understand command line.
You’ll need a mouse + keyboard + screen to see what you are doing when you set up the software. Once set up, and assuming you leave it switched on, you dont need to interact with it so you dont need the keyboard + mouse + display anymore. Unless you want to check it. Roon is fully operated via the app.
So your NUC is built and switched on.
Install the operating system, Windows or Linux. Then install the roon software.
OR
skip the windows versus linux choice, and simply install Roon ROCK. It’s a linux based operating system with Roon core embedded, and would be the easiest way to get up and running. But you cant do anything else with ROCK. But you probably dont want to, so go with ROCK. You download this from the roonlabs website.
Once roon core is running, switch over to your tablet to control it. Tell roon where your music is. It can be on an external disk drive, roon is quite happy with that.
You would ideally have the system hard wired to your network i.e. not Wifi.
The first scan of your existing library may take a little while. Once it’s done, it manages the library and automatically adds anything new you add to wherever you keep the music files.
Add in your qobuz subscription details, and the availability of music becomes more than you can listen to.
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You don’t to install any 3rd party operating system such as Windows or Linux. The Roon Rock download includes both the Roon core and Roon’s proprietary version of Linux desined specifically for Roon. A single installation file that installs everything you need.
No 3rd party software required at all - just Roon Rock.
As Robert-h has stated, as well as the NUC, you would need to purchase 8 Gb of RAM and a small m.2 SSD drive (from the likes of Samsung) on which you will install the Rock installation file.
M.2 SSD drives are significantly ‘faster’ than standard SSD drives - the NUC would accommodate either, but m.2 would be better.
I did put that above. Personally I run other things besides roon on the same pc so Linux for me is the best solution. Runs perfectly on Ubuntu.
I must be doing something wrong but yesterday I bought a Tidal hi-fi subscription and went mad when I saw that almost everything I listen is in AAC with the rare exclusions.
Say, “Duende” from “Bozzio Levin Stevens” is in AAC for me along with “Temptation” from Diana Krall. My player shows AAC. It looks like a silly joke. I’m totaly disenchanted after such experience.
Make sure the format / streaming rate is set correctly in the app. That is
separate from the subscription you’re paying for.
Eg I deliberately choose mp3 in the qobuz app as the sound comes out of my iPhone.
Initially, Roon will import existing favorites from Qobuz/Tidal. From then on, anything that you add to your Roon library will automatically also be marked as a Qobuz/Tidal favorite in the respective apps
In addition what others already explained …
You can purchase third party solutions, based on the Intel NUC platform. I have a fanless one from Cirrus 7, the “nimbini media edition”. https://community.naimaudio.com/t/what-was-the-last-bit-of-gear-you-bought/4115/1943)
You can order it with the Roon server software (Roon Rock) preinstalled and it is plug-in and play. The advantage is that you get much better specs for the same price as the Roon Nucleus, or much cheaper with similar specs as the Nucleus. However, you do have to choose a model from the website though you can’t really do much wrong and they will help. (This Roon web page helps choosing the model: https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/roon-optimized-core-kit)
On the other hand, if you do not want to do that and are fine with paying the Nucleus price, this is the even simpler solution. Then you don’t even have to choose anything (just Nucleus or Nucleus+, which is easy), just unpack, plug in, install the apps on mobile devices and/or computers, and off you go.
Roon requires a Roon server, there is no way around it. This can be a Nucleus, or a third-party solution like mine, or you can install Roon on a normal computer. Roon requires this because they add a lot of additional metadata, like e.g. the individual musician credits for the album, which are also searchable and linked. (I.e., you can click a musician on an album and it shows you the other albums they worked on). Wether you need/want this is up to you. In addition, Roon integrates a local library (like ripped CDs) and Qobuz/Tidal seamlessly in one interface.
The reasons why Roon chose this approach are explained here: https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/start-with-a-roon-core
You don’t even need that much power. Mine runs on a pentium g4560 and it doesn’t even break a sweat. Plus other applications are running simultaneously.
If I was going to build another pc right now for roon I’d pick another pentium chip for £70. Just priced one all in for under £300. Case, psu, ram, ssd, cpu, cpu cooler, motherboard.
True, like I wrote in the older post I over-specced mine because I did not care about the little additional cost and wanted it to be ready for whatever Roon decides to do in the future. The Nucleus has an 8th-gen i3 which is just fine if one doesn’t go crazy with multi-room and DSP. But the Cirrus in the lowest spec that is comparable to the Nucleus is much cheaper than the Nucleus.
If it’s in the same room, fan-less it’s great though, and also for being maintenance-free. Most likely I won’t have to touch it again within the next decades.
And I judged the OP to be interested in a simple solution rather than building an ancient Pentium PC and installing Ubuntu. A breeze for someone with experience, but the simpler approach may well be worth a few hundred euros to the OP. It was for me and I have decades of Linux experience. Running Roon Rock gives you atomic updates, for example. I’ve seen Ubuntu updates fail for twisted dependencies, and that’s fine on my laptop and sorted in 10 seconds, but on my headless music server I don’t need it
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Underspec the core at your own peril. Roon is a resource hungry application. If you want the best experience from it do not starve it of resources and use the minimum specs they recommend for building the system it runs on. Believe me the difference in using it on properly specced machine to one that’s not is huge as a user experience.
Roon is a server client software system, you need a Roon core (the brain) this lives on a computer and does all the heavy lifting, manages the music library, sends the music to your streamers it, gathers music metadata, does any additional DSP if you want to use it.
You then need a remote to control and setup Roon and send music to your devices. This can be the same computer if it’s windows or Mac, a tablet or phone.
You then need Roon Ready, or Roon tested endpoints to receive Roons streaming. Your Muso 2 is one , but any airplay, Chromecast , Sonos ,amongst other devices from Linn, Kef can also be used.
The core can run on any pc, Windows , Mac or Linux, a dedicated music server such as the Nucleus there are more out there cheaper such as the Sonic Transporter or AudioStores etc or on a decent NAS device. Or you can’t build your own dedicated core using an Intel NUC and install Roons own dedicated operating system called ROCK this will create a Nucleus type device for a modest amount but a bit work your end. It’s not difficult to do though and is more worthwhile and one of the best ways to run Roon.
Roon have recommendations as to what is the minimum spec to use for you computer running the core, this gives the best performance and experience. An Intel i3 is generally recommended with the series 7 as a starting point. It will run on less and older processors but experience will be diminished. It doesn’t need huge amounts of Ram 4gb min but I would not go lower than 8gb if your running another OS than ROCK. An SSD is mandatory for storing the library on, any pc with spinning disks will give a subpar performance as the database can’t load quickly enough.
One thing to try and avoid is having the Roon core machine connected to your network via wireless. It’s best for this to be hardwired back to your router. Users have the largest amounts of issues with running a music server on wireless, its just not the best solution.
You cannot not have a core, tablets phones etc do not have the grunt nor are they built to act as servers and would just die under the load that is our under them for Roon.
It might seem daunting but it’s all pretty simple.
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May i add that i would either go i3 10th gen or i7 for the additional peace of mind of future proofing. You may never need the i7 but who knows…
Roon (so far) relies on single core performance, the i5 single core clock speed is even below the i3 as far as i remember. The i3 is also the most silent one of the bunch if going NUC as its boost clock speed is lower and it has less cores to cool.
I have an i3 10th gen NUC with 4gb RAM and an 120gb SSD. I paid less than 300€ and it works flawlessly. There are numerous installation guides on the internet, but it is not as easy as some people say here because you need to get some bios booting settings right before you can install the Roon ROCK correctly. I am into IT since ages and the guide on the Roon Website is so so.