I’m experiencing some stability issues with my music streaming setup and would appreciate any insights or suggestions you might have.
- Sonore UPnP bridge for Roon integration
- Roon server running on an iMac (i7 processor, 32 GB memory)
- Connection: iMac to router via Ethernet
- Network: BT router, with data passing through two Ethernet switches from iMac to NDS
While the sound quality is excellent, the system’s stability is inconsistent. At times, it works flawlessly, but at other times, there’s no sound. I’ve found that unplugging and replugging the Sonore UPnP bridge temporarily fixes the issue. However, the problem often reoccurs when switching tracks (the Roon app shows the correct song playing but there’s no sound) necessitating another reset of the Sonore bridge.
I’m puzzled as to why this instability occurs. Could it be an issue with the UPnP bridge, network congestion, or something else? If anyone has faced similar issues or has any suggestions for resolving this, your input would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance for your help!
I was up till now using Audirvana on a mac mini to my NDS and while it sounds great I never completely got away with some hickups and the main one was that sometimes when switching between albums or between radio and albums my NDS just lost connection and I had to manually re-sync the NDS by moving through inputs so the screen shows it’s initializing.
Enter Lindemann Bridge II and Roon and not a single minor issue. Just music. And to my ears it sounds beautiful so it stays.
Having lived with NDS for a while I have learned it’s pretty unstable on the streaming side (ethernet input). I believe it’s better to add an external streamer to it and just use it as a DAC on digital IN. It was never fully optimised for streaming and I believe it shows. But the NDS with a 555PSDR used only as a DAC is beautiful. I love it deeply. Way ahead of NDX2 + 555PSDR IMO.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience and insights regarding the use of an external streamer with the NDS. Your switch to the Lindemann Bridge II and Roon setup sounds like it has significantly improved both the stability and the audio quality of your system.
I’m quite interested in exploring a similar setup for my NDS. Could you please share what type of cable you’ve used to connect your Lindemann Bridge II to the NDS? I assume it’s a digital coaxial cable rather than an optical one, but I’d like to confirm. Also, if you could specify the brand or make of the cable you’re using, that would be helpful.
Looking forward to your response and thanks again for your valuable advice!
Yes I’m using digital coax cable since it allows for higher quality signal transfer. In my case RCA coax digital out from Bridge II to BNC digital in on NDS.
I recently added an Sbooster linear power supply to my Bridge II. It sounds amazing now. Highly recommended setup in front of an NDS. Much better than the internal streamer in NDS and also always up to date with the latest services and zero technical issues. Just music
If going that way is it mandatory to use Roon or can one use Qobuz on its own?
Roon isn’t mandatory; you could use eg bubble upnp which can bridge between a streaming service such as qobuz and the upnp input on the nds.
If using the Lindemann, then their own app supports Qobuz. I would avoid the upnp bridge, if possible.
Also, Roon works optimally when running with Rock on an NUC. It’s best, if possible, to avoid running it on a PC or Mac, where there’s always other stuff going on. Of course, many run Roon on PCs, NAS even; yes, it can work OK, but for the ‘best’ experience use a dedicated Roon server.
Yes I’ve done that in the past but it wasn’t that reliable and also it needed a computer to work. I now run Audirvāna on my computer but this solution isn’t reliable either hence my interest in the Lindemann bridge. The NDS is too good leaving me with either ND 555 or some sort of bridge solution.
Qobuz doesn’t have a “connect” possibility so you rely on other apps to do it for them meaning you cannot use Qobuz own app (which is awful anyway). Lindemanns own app can of course do it and it’s free, no issues or bugs and does its job very well If you can compromise which I believe not then a hardware that supports airplay or Chromecast could stream directly from Qobuz app. Not an option on your level IMO. Only for casual listening if so but Bridge II doesn’t support airplay or chromecast. However rumours has it that Qobuz Connect is in testing mode right now and soon to be released.
I have put my plans on ND555 on pause since I really enjoy Bridge II + sbooster in my system
Lindemann app screens from my macbook air M1.
Thank you @Blackbird I really appreciate your insight on this. From the screen shots it looks ok and also my dealer sells Lindemann.
I have an NDS and use the SonoreUPnP bridge to provide Roon integration. For the last 5 years, if not longer, I have had stable performance. Occasional a track in the queue will finish early, but this like 1 track in several thousand. Also if you do ‘overload’ the instructions in terms of fast skipping, components need to be be reset.
One difference to the OP is I am running SonoreUPnP bridge on an UltraRendu, at SonicOrbiterOS 2.8. Also my Roon Server, running on ROCK on an Intel NUC is beside my NAS units “upstairs”, where the NDS & UltraRendu is “downstairs”. All server side processing is away from the frontend, and just a protocol switch between Squeezelite and UPnP (but the two are very closely related)
@David2350 Could you run Asset on the iMAC and see if some of the instability is on the network?
Personally I have tried a USB output from the UltraRendu, into a USB → S/PDIF convertor and into the Digital input of the NDS (similar to the Lindeman bridge) and I always preferred the NDS Ethernet input to its S/PDIF input.
It is said BNC sounds better on these boxes but I’ve not done the work evaluating it.
I have a similar experience to @simon.pepper regarding stability with only significant track skipping causing an issue which requires the Sonore bridge to be rebooted. I can go months without needing to reboot. I also use Rock running on an NUC, my bridge is the separate one which is basically a Raspberry Pi.
Maybe @David2350 could post some screenshots of his settings, both in Roon and the bridge so we can compare?
@David2350 Could you run a System Diagnostic on your SonoreUPnP server
http://<unit’s IP address>/diag
This generates a report like this. What is of interest is the Network section.
CPU Name: i.MX6DL, rev 1.3
Kernel Version: Linux ultraRendu 5.4.21-105.sgc.fc30.armv7hl #1 SMP Sat Dec 4 11:05:08 EST 2021 armv7l armv7l armv7l GNU/Linux
Small Chip (or unknown)
Bus 002 Device 005: ID 20b1:000a XMOS Ltd
Bus 002 Device 002: ID 0424:2412 Standard Microsystems Corp.
Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Disk /dev/mmcblk1: 29.7 GiB, 31914983424 bytes, 62333952 sectors
Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disklabel type: dos
Disk identifier: 0x4aa9cb1b
Device Boot Start End Sectors Size Id Type
/dev/mmcblk1p1 2048 70379 68332 33.4M e W95 FAT16 (LBA)
/dev/mmcblk1p2 * 71680 481279 409600 200M 83 Linux
/dev/mmcblk1p3 481280 31116287 30635008 14.6G 83 Linux
Disk /dev/zram0: 475.9 MiB, 499003392 bytes, 121827 sectors
Units: sectors of 1 * 4096 = 4096 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 4096 bytes / 4096 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 4096 bytes / 4096 bytes
Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/mmcblk1p3 15056232 3786276 11242456 26% /
tmpfs 511012 0 511012 0% /sys/fs/cgroup
devtmpfs 469732 0 469732 0% /dev
tmpfs 511012 4 511008 1% /dev/shm
tmpfs 511012 460 510552 1% /run
/dev/mmcblk1p2 180560 104124 70300 60% /boot
/dev/mmcblk1p1 34015 317 33698 1% /boot/efi
tmpfs 102200 0 102200 0% /run/user/0
Kernel Interface table
eth0: flags=4163 mtu 1500
inet 192.168.0.13 netmask 255.255.255.0 broadcast 192.168.0.255
inet6 fe80::d263:b4ff:fe01:5212 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x20
ether d0:63:b4:01:52:12 txqueuelen 1000 (Ethernet)
RX packets 165912735 bytes 4103868563 (3.8 GiB)
RX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 frame 0
TX packets 89317281 bytes 3050440411 (2.8 GiB)
TX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 carrier 0 collisions 0
Naim uses BNC connectors because they are 75 ohm which matches the digital signal. RCAs obviously still work, but the impedance is different so it has to be converted back to 75 ohms.
So, if the cable, signal and connector on the unit are all 75 ohms, the connectors on the cable should be as well.
Personally, I have a cable with RCA one end, and BNC on the other end. I don’t have a Naim CDP.
Yes thank you! I read up on it and it seems it’s not that easy to make an rca connector that is 75 ohm. Which then should imply that a cable with one rca also deviates from the 75 ohm standard. Which has me thinking that one should try an optimized coaxial cable with rca. Why rca you might wonder? Well, it’s because it is easier to source from my dealer so I’ll try with a dedicated digital coaxial cable with rca connectors first and see how that plays out.
It seems it actually took some work to get the BNC 75 ohm as well, as it was 50 ohm back in the 1950s, if I am correctly informed (source: internet😅)
Naim DC-1 can be had with RCA-BNC and my Chord Signature is also RCA-BNC. Sounds mighty fine to me The market with RCA - RCA coax is much much bigger and I would not worry about it but I do think its worth spending some on this cable as other cables. I’m a cable believer these days