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Hi-Fi Corner
4498

I did do them at the same time actually… so in many ways, I can’t really relay which added which, unfortunately.

What I will say though, is that the change from cirkus and Armageddon to Karousel and radikal was a great and really noticeable upgrade. I’m very very happy with the differences they made. Sounded like a totally different deck from first play. The most startling difference was that it made records I thought we’re really flat, poor recordings and a bit harsh/thin all of a sudden sound alive, full of detail, bass suddenly appeared and texture to voices I’d simply never heard before.

Yeah, the ittok for all intents and purposes is pretty dam good really. How much of that is down to the AO wiring and cable I don’t know.

Majik chassis is an obvious one to upgrade soon, which is why I’m leaning my thinking towards the keel (even though it’s still considerably more expensive used and I’d also hate to drill one!!) as it should be a definite improvement, rather than the half way step the kore is over majik.

Now I’ve depleted the savings again on the 250dr, I’ve got a bit of time to think… but I’m changing my thoughts more towards a keel the more I read, just so that I’ve got the best fundamentals covered. Karousel, ‘Keel’ and Radikal would then maximise whatever arm, cart and phono upgrades I did at a later date.

In the meantime though, the Karousel, majik and radikal are working pretty dam well! My original ideas were to go kore and get an Urika. The Urika is still in mind… but probably do the chassis first.

So many ways to get to the best end goal, sadly all very expensive!!! :grin:

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4499

I remember Kore being a big upgrade from my old sub, though that was pre-Majik. Keel is definitely better again. Both do turn up on eBay and the like, and it is hard for them to get worn out so buying new seems unnecessary.

At the risk of appearing heretical, there are also good LP12 sub-chassis offerings from a couple of third party makers (e.g. Tangerine Audio and Stack), and several people here swear by them.

For those wanting more detail and neutrality, any of those should be a big step and would let you hear your other changes fully.

Urika is probably more contentious. For convenience and elegance, it is a great answer. For SQ per £, you may want to hear a couple of options before spending.

Good luck!

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4500

That’s the thing @NickofWimbledon, most reviews of the kore I find do tend to be upgrades from the older style cirkus chassis, rather than from majik. I can imagine this would absolutely be a significant difference and be a pretty positive change. I wish there were more views of majik to kore out there! I think a chassis upgrade would, like you say, allow me to get even more out of my Karousel and radikal upgrades, which would be great.

I agree… I’d never buy a new one. Crazy prices new! But used they’re coming down to be a bit more palatable.

As you’ve suggested, I’d be open to a tangerine version as their stuff gets widely praised, but they rarely come up used and prices don’t seem much different compared to some of the used keels. I’ll be keeping an eye out in the meantime for sure.

Yeah, the Urika I’m seeing more as a ‘kill three birds with one stone’ change. It should be much better than the 523 boards in my 82, maximise the use of my radikal power supply… and give me a trampolin 2 at the same time. As far as value goes, I’m seeing this as a win-win-win update. All ‘as and when’ though… I don’t have the continual funds to rush, sadly! :grinning:

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4501

That all makes good sense to me.

I’d like to offer a proper Majik to Kore comparison, but I am one of the many who went to Kore years ago. We need other people to chip in on that comparison.

Others here can also tell you more than I can about how Theo Stack’s sub-chassis options sound. I know the construction makes sense and he seems a sensible and helpful chap, but I have never yet heard his Alto. I do know that they will probably be harder to resell than real Linn products, but arguably the purchase price reflects that already.

Occasionally, I see eBay offers on Keels and Tangerine products - patience is needed.

Urika is more contentious, because some knowledgeable and non-deaf people are big fans. Personally, I would much rather have a Superline (powered by a suitable Naim preamp or a Hicap or a Supercap) with just about any cartridge I have heard. That may show that I favour boogie over tonal purity - not sure - but I am not the only one.

The bigger shock for me was hearing a little Dynavector P75 mk 4 (not the early versions). I got one for £400 on eBay for a second LP12 (“luxury…”) and it is great.

It is not quite as pleasing to me as a Superline with just the right plugs in it, and I can understand people who prefer a Rega Aura, but look at the cost (and size) of both. The little DV is a gem and I’d probably take it over an Urika on SQ alone.

None of that makes a Urika a bad product of course: it is an elegant solution, but not the only one.

Finally, there are whole threads on what to have under an LP12. Traditionally, the best answer to my old ears was no baseboard at all if on the sort of ‘light and rigid’ support that Lunn recommends - I use a Target wall shelf that cost under £100.

Trampolinns to me are very necessary if you put the LP12 on anything heavy, but I thought them actively unhelpful the rest of the time. Maybe my ears were at fault…

Then it was suggested I try an aftermarket base from SRM, Stack or Tangerine. I tried the SRM version (cheap!) and thought it clearly better than no base - and better than a Tramp too.

I would still be listening to that - except that I then got offered a s/h Tangerine Stiletto LP12 with their built-in top plate and baseboard and a Keel and a Radikal and a hardly used Lyra Kleos. I heard it - and bought it. This hobby can go as far as you want….

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4502

Chatted with dealer today - he was chasing me up :flushed:. He was pretty relaxed, either a Lingo 4 now and Karousel, Kore and Trampolin later, or hit it all at once. Was firmly of the belief that provided that the plinth is good (my one is mint) then you pretty much get a new TT. He thought it takes an Ekos to better the Istok provided it’s in good condition. So, I’m summary, I’m well set to get to a Select level in one or two steps for less than half the cost of a new one. Can’t be bad.

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4503

The Ekos was a development of the Ittok and - as, suggested by its name, Ekos (‘Ecosse’) - built (by hand) by a very few workers at Naim’s factory in Glasgow. So you’d hope for, and expect, an improvement over the Ittok, otherwise someone in Glasgow screwed up big time!

(Although the two arms do look very similar indeed, and it’s very clear that the Ekos is a development of the Ittok.)

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4504

On the right track Mike - no hurry mate

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4505

I think you meant the Linn factory in Glasgow graham

4506

Oh dear, I need another cup of tea, Bevo! I’ll leave my ‘Freudian slip’, otherwise this exchange will make no sense!

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4507

When I say no hurry Mike

I purchased Harry’s ex demo Linn Majik ( no where near as good as the one today) back in April 2017

Gradually turned that into the LP12 ARO over the last 6 years to June 2023 with the ARO Keel imported from Peter Swain in UK.

Took a couple of years for the ARO tonearm to arrive with Harry tracking down one ( very rare in this part of the world) and that was the catalyst to keep going .

All good fun

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4508

A year ago I was considering whether to do a similar upgrade to you in one or two steps. In the end, I went for a single step and didn’t regret it at all. The deck was transformed. 9 months later I upgraded the cartridge and phone stage and now have a fabulous TT that is getting more use than it has had for many years. These days the TV hardly gets turned on. The only downside is that I am now thinking about upgrading my 222 to a 332 and 333 so the streamer side is closer to the TT level.

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4509

Sadly, AROs are very hard to get hold of, as comparatively few were made.

I have two, so I feel rather smug! Here’s one of them, in my small Nait50-based system.

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4510

You can certainly pay a whole lot more than what StackAudio charges for the Alto sub-chassis, but I seriously doubt you’ll gain anything in terms of performance. Unfortunately, I cannot talk about a direct comparison since both my current LP12s started with a bare plinth, literally from scratch. Here’s a bird’s-eye view of how StackAudio Alto components look:

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The machining, fit and finish are just superb, and so is the resulting SQ.

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4511

As you can read above I tried to do that, but it was perceived as too negative to the Kore to the very happy Kore owners which resulted in some blowback.

Perhaps I can give it another more neutral try: I think it is safe to say that the Majik subchassis is way better than the old subchassis at a decent price and will sound good with everything.

Now as to Kore, it does improve further but to my ears its pairing with the rest of the LP12, especially tonearm and power supply, is a bit more critical. By this I mean the end result will vary more than with the Majik which has a little more bounce (which to my ears matches better with the zing of the Ittok, but that’s personal) and is quite forgiving. If you like what comes out with Kore it’s all good, happy for you. But lesser results are also possible, which can then be offset again with a different and/or better power supply (like Lingo 4) or tonearm or other stuff so in the end it’s work but no harm done.

Personally I felt Keel does the same thing to an even greater extent, and mixed experiences have been documented here, so I would also be interested in how the third party subchassis sound. I have only heard the Mober, which was more boogie and fun with Lingo 1/2/3 than Kore, but Kore was better with Lingo 4 to my ears. All with Cirkus, don’t know how that is with Karousel.

LP12 is a big box with many variables, different types of top plates, plinths, subchassis, base boards, bearings, power supplies, tonearms, carts and cables. Many pairings of individually great components work in a lovely synergy, some perhaps less so, hope this helps!

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4512

Super interesting @daddycool

So, in essence… Kore becomes cleaner with less bounce and keel even moreso? I think that my tastes are maybe going that way, as I really like what radikal and Karousel have done… maybe it would suit.

Great to hear a broader take other than just ‘good/awesome’. Everyone’s take is different and good to hear differing viewpoints!

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4513

Yes and no, only if you keep the same power supply. The less coloured subchassis brings out more detail (the hifi vs. boogie) and the bounce returns when you upgrade the power supply accordingly. You’ve then reached a new higher balanced level, in my opinion.

So Majik with anything, Kore with minimum Lingo 4 and Keel with minimum Radikal 1 sounded like a pairing to my ears. The other way round Radikal with Majik was great :slight_smile: That’s why I’m also curious how the third party subchassis like the Tiger Paw AKula and others sound .

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4514

Right! That’s super interesting!

My radikal will cope with either, but interesting you liked the combination of radikal and majik, too!

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4515

What you need to have in mind is that the Keel came out in 2006 and Radikal 2009. So in 2006 a top of the range Linn LP12 would have had Ekos SE, Keel, Cirkus and Lingo 2.

So a set up like that should sound top notch. What I am saying is you can get Keel done with a Lingo 1 and it will still sound better.

I have a Lingo 1 and my turntable now sounds superb with Ekos 2, Dyn XX2 Mk2, Kore. Great phonostage Tom Evans The Groove +SRX.

Just saying there are alternatives. I am now thinking keeping current phonostage and get Keel and Radikal done. I was going to change to Urika but not so sure now. I have Trampolin 2.

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4516

Yes to my ears at least you can over-subchassis but there is no over-powersupplying :wink:

As I wrote in another thread today (I will also keep my Majik subchassis):

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4517

It looks like I am saying the opposite to you. That is you can have Keel with a Geddon or Lingo 1 or even valhalla!

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