Show us your turntable

I agree with TT, arm, cartridge, phono order.

I upgraded my TT this year (and I already had a great one) and it was a significant improvement, using the same everything else I already had (arm, cartridge, phono).

I also just upgraded my isolation base and that brought more improvements.

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I think in audio, like many things, the answer can depend on what your weakest link is. I found the same when I swapped just the table for the other, but you’ll only notice this upgrade if the phono stage is up to the task. So if your phono stage is already your weak link & you upgrade another item, there is a good chance your phono stage could be holding things back. If you have a top notch phono stage it will properly reveal any other improvements you make to the table/cartridge/arm.

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I think this is about right, but after you have done your best to follow the Naim route above. Having a poor base TT with the best phono or cartridge stage won’t allow the phono/cart/arm stage to perform at its best. I think that Naim has a synergy in its matching of component sets across its range. I think a TT/arm/cart/ phono set must have a similar synergy.

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Hi
In the case of an LP12
Bearing.
Power supply / motor.
Subchassis.
Arm.
Cartridge.
Hope this helps.

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Very kind of you Clive. :+1:t2:
Your more than qualified to answer the question. :wink:

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I would personally put phono before the cartridge.

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No doubt, its a bit of a what came first chicken or the egg. A top of the line phono stage isn’t going to make a poor table sound better (though it should get everything out of it it can), but a poor phono stage on an excellent table is going to limit its performance as well. So its all about balance.

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I think in the end one needs to have some balance. Don’t expect a $1000 phono stage to bring out the best of a $13k cartridge. OTOH, a $15k phono-stage is probably overkill and wasted money on a $500 cartridge.

I’m sure I’ll get shot down for this but I’ve never seen the point of spending $30k on a Linn Klimax (or comparable Clearaudio, etc) and then putting a $1000 cartridge on it. Seems a bit of waste to me, or least a mis-balance of components.

I have a $20 TT (with arm), $13k cartridge and a $15k phono-stage (plus a second arm and cartridge for mono). I don’t know that I would add or substract from any of it to subtract or add to anything else of it.

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I would completely agree, seems like a bit of a mullet to me as well. Not saying right or wrong but the same store owner also thought if you have a decent table, as above get the best phono stage you can afford (so your getting the max out of everything & may cut down on multiple upgrades in the future) & then follow it up with a good MC cartridge (for her entry level for MC starts @ 2K+ & she wasn’t a big fan of my Hana ML :smile: ). Again, as above everything within reason, a $13K cartridge on a $2K table makes no sense, etc.

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I agree with that too, although I made the opposite point because that’s what I see often enough. High end TTs with mediocre cartridges. I rarely see someone matching a mediocre TT with a cartridge 5-6 times the cost of it.

Agree completely

However as the experts say the last upgrade to do to reach nirvana is the cartridge

I have actually heard quite a number of high end TT’s over the years with , in big scheme of thing , average priced cartridges , and they have sounded pretty good I must say

Some enthusiasts don’t (can’t) do all upgrades at once and perhaps they are just getting around to the final upgrade

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I agree with most comments above.
I would add that in my experience, the phono stage has a greater impact than a cartridge.
For example, with a 5k budget, I would better buy a 1,5 k cart and 3,5 k phono than the contrary.

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I’ve just had a look at Linn prices. A Klimax LP12 sold complete would cost £25k at today’s prices. This includes the Ekstatik cartridge, which can be purchased separately for £6k and the Urika phono stage, which is £3k. Although I’m sure there are some economies to be enjoyed by buying the complete package, we could deduce that roughly it means £16k for the TT including power supply, £3k for phono stage and £6k for cartridge. Clearly, Linn thinks this is a balanced system, but it’s certainly not the even distribution which you advocate. There may be more to system optimisation (at the level of the turntable in isolation) than simply balancing the distribution of spend.

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Yeah, Klimax is $31k in U.S. I think the $7300 Ekstatik is a fine match for a TT of that level, although I might want to throw a better phono-stage at it.

I didn’t mean to imply that balance is of the exact proportions I have. That balance is pretty good for that particular set of components, and even a lesser cartridge would be great (like a $5k DV or so, not so much a $800 MM). I was more making a point that oddly balanced systems (like a $20k TT with a $1K cartridge) is not money well spent. I understand that sometimes going cheap on a component is meant as a stepping stone. I know of people with Clearaudio Innovation with a TT3 linear arm using $1200 MM cartridge. That doesn’t make much sense to me.

But definitely, I don’t think I would put a $13k Lyra Atlas SL on a RB300 and expect to get the best out of the cartridge, or with a Simaudio Moon 110LP phono-stage. As good as the latter two are for how they should be utilized, they are a poor match for something like the former, IMO.

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Your phono should cost three times as much as your cartridge according to Origin Live. The phono accounts for up to 95% of total amplification in vinyl playback.

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Uh-oh! Looks like I’m in big trubs then :joy:

If we’re going by retail price when purchased, my vinyl set-up is approx $3K AUD for TT (Thorens TD-850), $4-500 for the arm (Rega RB300), $5.5K for the cartridge (Ortofon MC A90) and $4K for the phono stage (Rega Ios).

Although the overall sound is highly enjoyable it’s clear that my TT/arm combo is holding back what the A90 can really do, hence why I’m looking at something like an SME or Kuzma tt/arm upgrade next year.

The Rega Ios is a really fantastic phono stage for the money so I’m hoping it won’t hod back the rest of the gear, at least not by much as it’ll be a while before I can put $$ into upgrading it.

Oh, I’m in even bigger trouble.

I suppose I need two $40k phono stages, or one $80k one with dual inputs. :roll_eyes:

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Nah, you’re just in more expensive trouble.