Show us your turntable

I agree with TT, arm, cartridge, phono order.

I upgraded my TT this year (and I already had a great one) and it was a significant improvement, using the same everything else I already had (arm, cartridge, phono).

I also just upgraded my isolation base and that brought more improvements.

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I think in audio, like many things, the answer can depend on what your weakest link is. I found the same when I swapped just the table for the other, but youā€™ll only notice this upgrade if the phono stage is up to the task. So if your phono stage is already your weak link & you upgrade another item, there is a good chance your phono stage could be holding things back. If you have a top notch phono stage it will properly reveal any other improvements you make to the table/cartridge/arm.

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I think this is about right, but after you have done your best to follow the Naim route above. Having a poor base TT with the best phono or cartridge stage wonā€™t allow the phono/cart/arm stage to perform at its best. I think that Naim has a synergy in its matching of component sets across its range. I think a TT/arm/cart/ phono set must have a similar synergy.

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Hi
In the case of an LP12
Bearing.
Power supply / motor.
Subchassis.
Arm.
Cartridge.
Hope this helps.

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Very kind of you Clive. :+1:t2:
Your more than qualified to answer the question. :wink:

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I would personally put phono before the cartridge.

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No doubt, its a bit of a what came first chicken or the egg. A top of the line phono stage isnā€™t going to make a poor table sound better (though it should get everything out of it it can), but a poor phono stage on an excellent table is going to limit its performance as well. So its all about balance.

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I think in the end one needs to have some balance. Donā€™t expect a $1000 phono stage to bring out the best of a $13k cartridge. OTOH, a $15k phono-stage is probably overkill and wasted money on a $500 cartridge.

Iā€™m sure Iā€™ll get shot down for this but Iā€™ve never seen the point of spending $30k on a Linn Klimax (or comparable Clearaudio, etc) and then putting a $1000 cartridge on it. Seems a bit of waste to me, or least a mis-balance of components.

I have a $20 TT (with arm), $13k cartridge and a $15k phono-stage (plus a second arm and cartridge for mono). I donā€™t know that I would add or substract from any of it to subtract or add to anything else of it.

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I would completely agree, seems like a bit of a mullet to me as well. Not saying right or wrong but the same store owner also thought if you have a decent table, as above get the best phono stage you can afford (so your getting the max out of everything & may cut down on multiple upgrades in the future) & then follow it up with a good MC cartridge (for her entry level for MC starts @ 2K+ & she wasnā€™t a big fan of my Hana ML :smile: ). Again, as above everything within reason, a $13K cartridge on a $2K table makes no sense, etc.

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I agree with that too, although I made the opposite point because thatā€™s what I see often enough. High end TTs with mediocre cartridges. I rarely see someone matching a mediocre TT with a cartridge 5-6 times the cost of it.

Agree completely

However as the experts say the last upgrade to do to reach nirvana is the cartridge

I have actually heard quite a number of high end TTā€™s over the years with , in big scheme of thing , average priced cartridges , and they have sounded pretty good I must say

Some enthusiasts donā€™t (canā€™t) do all upgrades at once and perhaps they are just getting around to the final upgrade

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I agree with most comments above.
I would add that in my experience, the phono stage has a greater impact than a cartridge.
For example, with a 5k budget, I would better buy a 1,5 k cart and 3,5 k phono than the contrary.

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Iā€™ve just had a look at Linn prices. A Klimax LP12 sold complete would cost Ā£25k at todayā€™s prices. This includes the Ekstatik cartridge, which can be purchased separately for Ā£6k and the Urika phono stage, which is Ā£3k. Although Iā€™m sure there are some economies to be enjoyed by buying the complete package, we could deduce that roughly it means Ā£16k for the TT including power supply, Ā£3k for phono stage and Ā£6k for cartridge. Clearly, Linn thinks this is a balanced system, but itā€™s certainly not the even distribution which you advocate. There may be more to system optimisation (at the level of the turntable in isolation) than simply balancing the distribution of spend.

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Yeah, Klimax is $31k in U.S. I think the $7300 Ekstatik is a fine match for a TT of that level, although I might want to throw a better phono-stage at it.

I didnā€™t mean to imply that balance is of the exact proportions I have. That balance is pretty good for that particular set of components, and even a lesser cartridge would be great (like a $5k DV or so, not so much a $800 MM). I was more making a point that oddly balanced systems (like a $20k TT with a $1K cartridge) is not money well spent. I understand that sometimes going cheap on a component is meant as a stepping stone. I know of people with Clearaudio Innovation with a TT3 linear arm using $1200 MM cartridge. That doesnā€™t make much sense to me.

But definitely, I donā€™t think I would put a $13k Lyra Atlas SL on a RB300 and expect to get the best out of the cartridge, or with a Simaudio Moon 110LP phono-stage. As good as the latter two are for how they should be utilized, they are a poor match for something like the former, IMO.

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Your phono should cost three times as much as your cartridge according to Origin Live. The phono accounts for up to 95% of total amplification in vinyl playback.

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Uh-oh! Looks like Iā€™m in big trubs then :joy:

If weā€™re going by retail price when purchased, my vinyl set-up is approx $3K AUD for TT (Thorens TD-850), $4-500 for the arm (Rega RB300), $5.5K for the cartridge (Ortofon MC A90) and $4K for the phono stage (Rega Ios).

Although the overall sound is highly enjoyable itā€™s clear that my TT/arm combo is holding back what the A90 can really do, hence why Iā€™m looking at something like an SME or Kuzma tt/arm upgrade next year.

The Rega Ios is a really fantastic phono stage for the money so Iā€™m hoping it wonā€™t hod back the rest of the gear, at least not by much as itā€™ll be a while before I can put $$ into upgrading it.

Oh, Iā€™m in even bigger trouble.

I suppose I need two $40k phono stages, or one $80k one with dual inputs. :roll_eyes:

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Nah, youā€™re just in more expensive trouble.