Hi all. I have spent the last many hours reading through the threads on this site as well as the Roon forum on how best to be able to use Roon with an NDS, and I THINK the easiest way to maintain the sound quality of the NDS using Roon without degradation vs. using the Naim app and upnp from a NAS server is to use the Sonore upnp bridge. I think. It’s hard to tell, honestly, as the threads tend to devolve into comments on various other solutions and arguments over which is better.
Anyway, I have a few questions. Forgive the simplicity of my questions. I’m a simple guy.
- Do I need anything other than the Sonore upnp bridge hardware (and, obviously, the Roon core)?
- Is there any software to control the Sonore bridge? Or is its presence on the network enough for the Roon app to recognize it and stream to it?
- How is the Sonore bridge connected to the NDS? I can’t find any pics of the back of the Sonore, so I don’t know what jacks are available. The pic of the front shows an RJ-45 plug and a bunch of USB jacks; but if I understand the architecture of the setup properly I would think you would need two RJ-45 on the bridge; one for input from the network, and one for output from the bridge to the NDS. But I may be wrong on that. Like I said, simple guy. So, what cables are needed and how are they connected? My setup is Roon core to be connected to the network/router via switch, and the NDS is on the network via a different Cisco 2960 switch in the AV cabinet. Would the Sonore go in the AV cabinet between the Cisco 2960 and the NDS? Or does the Sonore just go somewhere on the network and the NDS finds it? I’m guessing its the former, but I’m not sure.
@simon.pepper is best to give you advice hear.
Hi, the easiest and low cost way is, IMHO, a Raspberry PI with Volumio or Moode or Ropiee. You can choose to use the onboard USB or Spdif through a HAT as Allo Digione or Allo Digione Signature.
The Sonore bridge just needs to be on the same network as the NDS.
It’s controlled by a web browser.
It’s an easy elegant solution IMHO.
Interesting question that I’ve been asking myself.
One suggestion that I’m exploring is to use a SPDF cable from an Innuos zen mini mk3.
So there’s no direct connection between the Sonore and the NDS? Just ethernet into the Sonore from a switch somewhere on the network, and another ethernet into the NDS from another (or I guess the same) switch?
That’s it, no direct connection needed.
I’ve been using a sonore microRendu into an NDS via UPnP for some time now and the results a very good indeed, the UPnP bridge works very well, I’ve now upgraded to an opticalRendu and the NDS is sounding better than ever, I would highly recommend this way to ROON your system.
OK. So if I understand everybody correctly, all I need to do is pop a Sonore UPnP bridge (or micro rondu, or optical rendu, or other variant including the Sonore UPnP functionality) somewhere on my network, change a few settings on the Roon app, setup the web interface for the Sonore, and maybe change some settings on the NDS, and I’m fully Rooned?
That’s suspiciously easy.
Of course, the other thing you will have to do (as I am sure you are aware) is install Roon Rock (or Roon Core) on an appropriate device, and then you will be up and running.
The SonoreUPnP represents as a Roon Endpoint to the Roon Core.
The NDS just gets a UPnP stream, pushed from Roon (as opposed to pull with UPnP).
You then control the playback from Roon.
This works better than converting to S/PDIF and uses the NDS as it was optimized for, as a Network player.
I run the SonoreUPnP bridge on a UltraRendu with a Uptone UltraCap LPS 1, with a dual faceplate making a neat single unit.
The easiest and best way of adding Roon for your NDS.
That’s awesome. Thanks everybody.
One question: I see one can achieve the same ability to get Roon into the NDS with the quite inexpensive Sonore UPnP Bridge, or one can use the Ultra Rendu, Micro Rendu, Optical Rendu, etc, and a linear power supply can be added as well. Not really wanting to add another not inexpensive set of boxes to achieve Roon if I don’t have to, has anyone any first hand experience with any differences in sound quality between the basic bridge vs. the Rendu products?
Actually two questions: Do the Rendu products add any functionality that is missing with just the bridge?
The Sonore UPNP bridge is the simplest way to do this but if you are a bit savy you can do this for free using the lms-to-upnp software. See this thread for more information https://community.naimaudio.com/t/howto-roonify-non-roon-streamers-lms-to-upnp/751
I’ve been using this method for 4 months now and it has been faultless with my NDS. No going back to the Naim application.
I was initially using my QNAP as the Roon Core but have just moved over to using ROCK on an NUC with an improvement in performance and possibly sound quality but I may be kidding myself on the latter! My setup certainly gives the same sound quality as UPNP voa Asset and the Naim application.
I am also using lms-to-upnp software. This software, the roon core and my storage of music are all running on a small fanless windows pc. It is working.
The ultraRendu or microRendu give you the ability to use a USB driven DAC or bridge the output to a S/PDIF signal, if required. However if you just going to use the SonoreUPnP Bridge then the dedicated product will be just fine.
That option wasn’t available when I started down this path - I tried using the SonicOrbiterSE (SOSE) product at first, but there was issues with it and the earlier version of SonicOribiterOS (2.3), so this was traded up to the UltraRendu, and I picked up a 2nd hand UltraCap LPS power supply.
The present version of SonicOrbiterOS (2.6 & 2.7) and the SonoreUPnP bridge are rock stable.
In-fact the only times there are problems, is when the NDS has ‘lost’ the network and needs to be rebooted.
Also the DIY implementation of the lms-to-upnp bridge wasn’t available either - but here you get a web interface for the configuration and any updates.
I have tried the USB output of the UltraRendu into a XMOS USB->S/PDIF convertor but the SQ via the UPnP route is better. It is also better than Asset UPnP server running on a RPi2, which doesn’t offer the MQA support.
I suspect the UPnP Bridge from Small Green Computer is a SBC, similar to a RPi and the embedded SBC in the Rendu products, they just offer improved power regulation and clocking.
Small Green Computer also offer some Grade-B microRendus at a price in-between the Bridge and a regular microRendu, plus I am sure they offer a Money-back policy.
@Laertes I’m currently using a Sonore uPnP Bridge. I’m interested if you go this way what, if any, sound quality differences you hear playing local files via Roon/Bridge vs the Naim App.
Looks like my options are now limited to SGC. Here’s the advice I had from Innuos (I hope that it’s ok to quote this):
“ It would assume that the NDS is the newer version released by Naim in the last couple years. If of a similar vintage as the Qutes then this will not be the case.
The newer Naim products received updates so that they could appear as Roon device endpoints across the network. This is a unique/specific thing, many streamers on the market do not have this feature yet and are more traditional UPnP streamers, such as your current Naim gear.
There might be some confusion in that any DAC connected to a Roon Core (in this case ZENmini) does indeed become a Roon endpoint - no special license or technology needed there. However, it is probably going to be impossible to connect all your Naim gear by USB/digital coaxial rather than network, so this is basically off the table.
Unfortuantely it is going to be quite difficult to turn all your HiFi in to a full Roon network, it would require Naim to update their older streamers with this feature and i’ve no reason or cause to anticipate that they will do this, but it could be worth asking them.
As it stands, you could get one of our servers and still use it to distribute sound via UPnP to all your Naim devices using the Naim app.”
I was not aware of this updated NDS.
So are you planning on Roon for more than one endpoint? You can get USB to SPDIF converters to get it to feed your NDS. I am sure @Filipe does this although not sure he uses Roon. But it should work. If you want a one box solution then yes SGC Sonic Transporter with SPDIF out would work. Although I think the new mini uses SPDIF to so surely that would work as Roon server and endpoint feedind DAC from the SPDIF.
I was hoping to find an Ethernet solution and had thought the Zenmini mk3 would be it, hence SGC’s transports. There is space on my Fraim for something but somewhere in the back of mind I had heard that the sound quality of SPDIF was not great. Could be wrong?
I can’t recall whether Phil has Roon (@Filipe), but what I saw of his interface looked good (ipeng?).