@Bjm
There’s actually is a store that could do a home demo I think. Would be handy to switch between SN3 and TT2 driving speakers directly.
It’s not that I am stuck-up, and think an amplifier in the chain is not good enough. It’s that if the gap is large between the TT2>SN3>speakers, vs TT2>speakers direct. I’d be tempted even with an SN3, not to use the SN3 much.
Have to say the headphone amp in my 272 isn’t as good as I thought should be. Mates just bought a new XS3 it’ll be interesting to hear what has to say when it’s installed on Friday. His been using the Headline.
Very interested to hear your findings @GreenBow when you do the comparison. If the TT works and you don’t have any other sources then it would be a waste of money getting the SN3.
I actually wish they had a SN3 without the phono stage - I know I would never use it (at my age I am not going to go back to vinyl, having sold it all some years back) and then it could be a less costly version for someone like me. I hate paying for something I would never use, so that makes a SN3 a little less appealing…and otherwise I would find it a very interesting future option.
Hi, despite I might know the answer, I am wondering these days whether It would be wiser to go for an SN2 rather then a SN3 taking into consideration that I already have a Stageline N/Flatcap XS. Except for the phono stage, would I gave up to so much SQ…?
IMHO, out of the box the SN3 seems to me more balanced than the SN2, not so bright/accented in the treble; but is a perceptual tip as it’s only been rolling for just 3 hours now. More and better rating when it goes settling and running…
The ears get used to what they hear ( unless its too bad to tolerate ) so as the SN3 settles in - the memories of SN2 will fade and i recell the SN2 was a defective one… so the comparison might not serve any purpose.
In any case its the system and the room that make the music and not the amplifier alone.
Mine is not going anywhere for the next at least 5 years or until sn4 is released, hopefully it will be worth replacing it and phono stage is removed in next gen. I understand vinyl is back now or should I say it’s been fashionable lately, it is not back, for those loving it, it’s been here all the time. Now with the numerous platforms for hi res music I doubt people would buy it just for the reason it has the phone stage included, more likely it will be unused by most, it won’t do any harm, but price has gone up. Similar thing happened with 1st gen and its dac, Naim equipped it just because by the time dacs started to replace cd players. That’s why I am keeping the 2, it is just what I need, just an amp, in case I convince my self in going to vinyl, which is highly unlikely, Stage Line is cheap.
I am aware sn3 improvements are not just the phono stage, but I guess they are not that substantial, sn2 is already great.
I’m a bit surprised they included a MM phono stage in SN3 really. I mean, at this price point people start to care a lot about details and if it’s something Naim in general want it is people buying more Naim boxes for best possible audio. If people afford 450EUR on an integrated then a separate phono stage isn’t a big deal really. It’s not like Naim is giving away this for free. It would be better to lower the price somewhat making the integrated as such even more competitive and then people purchase the phono stage they need from Naim or other brands. A lot of us also want MC stage and then the MM is just collecting dust. If Naim think they need to provide an amp that solve the problem for a lot of people then they need to do it in a bigger way, not just including an MM stage. So now its a so so solution which to me is not Naim. SN should be about best possible integrated amp for those not wanting to mess around with power boxes and stuff because we all know that is rather difficult to understand if you are not a Naim hardcore fan… So either simplify or do it all in but never in the middle… I think marketing got to big of a say in this vinyl trend really and don’t fully understand the user group because so far I havent seen any WOWs over MM stage. Instead Naim need to defend this option most often.
May be you’re right, even more so considering that most of the system is also new (source and interconnect cable); but I must warn you that I enjoy an elephant memory, both visual, tactile, auditory, olfactory and tasteful,
As for the SN2 defect, I’m not quite sure: a few days ago, even still without the SN3 and NDX2 at home, some energy-efficient LEDs and light bulbs will start flashing slightly but brightly, almost invaluable, although I think enough to generate some problems to some of the most sensitive electronic devices. It is not a bit of a bit of a mess, in fact, in 17 years it has only been produced a couple of times or three, always due to reasons outside of the domestic electrical installation, and due to problems in the general electrical distribution, which, although good and quality, is obviously not a good watch. Nothing happened, but I wonder if the SN2 could be exposed to something similar that affected it… I don’t know, but in any case it’s already past water.
Really currently only about 15 hours of operation, and considering that the source (NDX2) and the interconnect cable (Signature Chord Tuned Aray DIN-DIN) are also new, much higher quality than my previous source (Cyrus Stream Xa) and previous wire (AQ Water), and still lacking all running in, but some preliminary thoughts and assessments:
The SN3 seems more balanced in the frequency range than the SN2: less tendency to brightness, even as volume goes up; less forward or “into the face” sound and more balanced across all the frequency range.
Without giving up a perfect image focus, to me the SN3 offers a much wider soundstage than the SN2: the sondstage doesn’t stay so much between the speakers, with just a couple of spans or three ahead of them, but extends in all directions beyond them, offering a much more three-dimensional image.
In dynamics, the SN3 looks slightly better than the SN2: it is more pistonic, likely due to the tweking performed in the power stage, which results in more solid low frequencies and, above all, much better nuanced.
The depth and subtlety of the SN3 is much greater and better than those of SN2, both in macrodynamics and microdynamics: it represents more accurately the recordings, especially the most complex ones, exposing much better the diferent layers of the music; comes to more and better nuances of the recordings; I find it much more emotional than the SN2.
Having the same rated power than the SN2, I noticed that the potentiometer has a more useful travel in the SN3: on the SN2 I was very surprised that, depending on the recordings, the useful area of the pot basically reached up to about 10 o’clock, at least in my unit, from which the sound was hardening and degrading to go into clipping; on the SN3, the potentiometer is more gradual, with more travel, without so much abruptness, and it seems that clipping arrives much later, because the sound does not degrade or harden at least until about 11 o’clock (given its scarce running time, obviously, I have not uploaded it either more, and only up to that mark with some old recordings with quite little gain level).
Just like on the SN2, in the SN3 all the music sounds good, although I find it more permissive with the poorest recordings: I basically listen to some Internet Radio and, above all, my extensive collection of ripping CDs hosted on Synology NAS in low compression FLAC format; the quality differences in the original recordings are perfectly noticeable, but even the worst quality ones (deficient but not bad) sound very good, very true to the source, better than in the SN2.
The MM phono stage is good-very good; personally I had my TT (Denon DP-300) laughed, because with the previous amps, all without phono stage, I had to resort to its internal phono stage (phono equalizer), which is quite limited, not to say bad; with the SN3, I have mounted an Ortofon 2M Blue capsule, and through the SN3 phono stage, by-passing the Denon’s internal equalizer, the sound is very, very good; it’s not a sound comparable to that offered by the NDX2, obviously, but surprisingly good for being a 300 pound’s TT with a medium quality capsule, and, for me, leaps forward over the previous level; with higher quality TT and MM capsules should shine high.
In short, i find the SN3 a lot better and more complete amplifier than the SN2, and without hesitation, it wouldn’t go back.
Now, remember that I switched to the SN3 because of an apparent problem in my new brand SN2 unit, which opened that opportunity at very low cost, almost at no cost really. And the million-dollar question: if I had the SN2 working perfectly, and I had to sell or missell it to cover part of the the cost of a new SN3, would the SN2 be traded for SN3?, is it really worth it…? Well, both heard, although SN3 seems to me a lot better than SN2 and would have a hard time getting back to SN2, it doesn’t seem to me that differences will justify a premature change, and I personally believe, almost certainly, that I wouldn’t trade an SN2 in mint condition for a new SN3. However, anyone considering an upgrade from lower rungs, and thinking between SN2 and SN3, I think should listen both to decide well, and my recommendation would be SN3 even despite the difference in price that may currently be due to the offers and promotions, new or ex-demo, for model change.
Could it be that the SN2 I enjoyed for 2 months had a congenital problem that finally came to light…? Could it be that the fault was somewhat punctual and due to possible instability in the electrical grid…? I don’t know, although seeing from here I’m more inclined through the latter.
In any case, it’s very relative. Without a reference counterpoint, in the previous configuration with the SN2 and same speakers, but different source and different cable, the sound also didn’t seem to me bright or poor, quite the opposite. But compared to the current configuration with the SN3, same speakers, NDX2 and Chord SE TA DIN-DIN, the sound of the previous configuration pulled much brighter and “into the face”; or this current configuration offers a more relaxed and more balanced sound, if you prefer, with mids equally slightly forward, treble equally extended, but more extended and full bass. To my hears, the SN3 restores low frequencies better than SN2, and that probably contributes to that more relaxed and balanced sound, albeit not coloured in any manner.
Anyway, as I point out, all the electronics are basically out of the box, so it should settle down and the sound nuanced. If it really did as it settles down, I’d say it could be a much better synergy than the SN2 with the Harbeth 40.1.