Hello everyone, I joined the Naim club earlier this year and wanted seek out some advice from all of you seasoned experts if possible. I am looking to treat myself this Christmas and make the next upgrade but am not sure which way to go. Whilst sounding very nice, I feel that my current setup doesn’t quite get the best out of my B&W 804 D3’s… Current setup is SN3 + Hicap DR + Node 2i, Tellurium Q Black cables throughout, so was debating whether to take the first step into the Pre/Power route and get a Nac 282 and use the SN3 as the power amp (with a view to trading the SN3 in later and upgrading to a Nap 250) OR whether I should just upgrade the Node to a NDX2 first, just not sure which would give me the greatest improvement in the here and now as I do want a bit more oomph from this upgrade. I’m also a Tidal jockey (controversial I know, tried Qobuz and didnt get along with it) so am keen to still be able to appreciate the MQS content if possible, which I wasn’t sure I could do via an NDX… I do want to do all of the upgrades eventually but obviously have to think about funds and do want to heat the house this winter…
I would appreciate any advice, also was wondering if I did go 282 with the SN3, how do I connect the Hicap up, currently I have the Snaic 4&5 pin to the SN3. Thanks in advance.
Keep the Hicap connected to the SN3 via the SNAIC4. Connect the SNAIC5 that was connected to the SN3 to Upgrade 1 socket on the 282. Leave the 282 Upgrade 2 link plug in place. Don’t forget to put the SN3 into power amp mode.
Agree with Mr M though - NDX2 first before the 282.
The NDX2 will do the first unfold for MQA if that helps you. If it was me, I’d upgrade your source first then Pre/power as I’ve heard B&W speakers like current. Long term yeah a 282/250DR would be very beneficial for your speakers. That being said I wouldn’t underestimate the SN3, it’s really really good. I haven’t heard a Node 2i so I can’t really comment on full MQA if it’s available on the device but the first unfold for Tidal sounds solid on a NDX2 (I prefer Qobuz but have Tidal as well)
I improved my node 2i by purchasing an external dac- a chord qutest. This made an enormous improvement into my sn3
The principle though would be to upgrade source first as others have suggested.
Agree with recommendations above NDX 2 first on the list for upgrades.
Many other threads regarding upgrade of SuperNaits and search feature is a great source of information at your fingertips.
Not long ago I had a XPS DR > NDX 2 > HiCapDR > SN 2 and then added a NAC 282 and moved the HiCapDR to the 282 and it was a wonderful uplift. Then added the 250 DR and once again a very nice upgrade.
It is a path well traveled and documented on the forum.
I have B&W 804 D3s (and TQ Black cables). They are the first B&Ws I liked for many years and really good speakers - but they are not forgiving and do like grunt.
At the moment, I’d argue that your amplification is a big step above your source and that your speakers are a big step above your amplification.
I do not have a Supernait to try. However, I can say with confidence that the amp section of a Nova makes the B&Ws sound impressive in my house but doesn’t have the grip (or probably current delivery) to make them work as they should. SN3+HCDR is well above Nova level, but I am sure the same will apply.
I used my B&Ws for a couple of years with olive 82/ Hicap/ 250 - absolutely brilliant. That result gives me 100% confidence that (in a suitable room) a modern 282/HC/250 will drive them well for you.
I have since moved on and now power them with 52/Supercap/300DR - the B&Ws are plenty good enough to show the extra quality there. Given that the current 804s cost £11K (!), perhaps that’s no surprise.
Sadly, none of that changes what others have said here - an NDX2 (or ND5XS2-plus-nDAC) is probably the minimum source to really sing through SN3+HCDR. Changing amplifier without changing source might well sound less satisfactory, not more - sadly, ‘more revealing’ might well be different from ‘more enjoyable’.
My first step into streaming was the NDX2. Even with my 82/HC/250, I found the NDX2 good - but significantly less good than my LP12 or CDS2 - adding the XPSDR changed that and I feel no need to upgrade the streamer further even after the amplifier changes.
To hear what your speakers can really do, I think you will have to make some big steps - with implications for cost and box-count. Fortunately, buying old (or very old but serviced) Naim boxes is a well-trodden path for many of us whose first names are not ‘Sheikh’ or ‘Elon’.
Right! Totally forgot it’s Roon(which I love) that does the first unfold. Someday soon I’ll hear full MQA but IIRC when I did hear it in not the most ideal surroundings it didn’t do much for me.
The just released Lumin T3 is getting great reviews, which would have its own Dac, and allow you to hear full MQA. I am using the P1, and could not be happier.
Oh, the elusive 272 replacement…still waiting huh?Actually my Lumin P1 does everything a new 272 would as far as I can tell. I once owned a 272, seems like a lifetime ago now.
My P1 is more like a digital hub, the T3 that I suggested is more of a streamer/Dac,which would be perfect into the OP’s SN3.
After many years of gear swapping, I have almost arrived at my destination.
The OP wants to stay with Tidal and MQA, therefore Naim streamers are not the best choice because they don’t do MQA.
The next step up price wise from a Node 2i, for MQA, would be something like a NAD C658 or Arcam ST60 and above that price point Lumin’s are also very good as are Moon’s.
I’m a Tidal user and prefer it because they also stream Music Video’s and I like the MQA Hi-Res streams, I also have a SN3 and HiCap DR and originally had a NAD C658 which with the full Dirac Room EQ was pretty good for my entry into streaming for the last few years and a few months ago upgraded to a Lumin P1 which is fantastic and so much better than the C658 (as it should for the huge price difference).
It’s all about how much the OP wants to spend, but I would go source first and a better streamer.
Firstly thank you all for responding to my cry for help, some great advice here and I have a lot to think about by the looks of things! I will update once a decision had been made…
Unless you are very bandwidth limited I’m not sure why you are quite so keen to restrict your options by specifying the ability to listen to lossy MQA??
SN3 with Hicap is basically a £6000 integrated. It can be improved on with either Naim or another make but at what cost. I feel it’s an excellent setup that will benefit from a better front end and show it off as well. I use a CDS3 and an Avid turntable, both with more than satisfactory results.
