I too had the NDX2/SN3 and can easily recommend it.
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If your original idea was to buy a brand new Supernait 3 now that they’re still available, and you have the funds, by all means go for it. As has been written it will make for a great pairing with your NDX2. And it’s nice to have a plan fullfilled.
As for your then next upgrade, even if it may sound counter-intuitive, please try out Naim’s original cabling. The standard power cords, the grey interconnect, Naca5 speaker cable. I think you can possibly be amazed by the holistic satisfying end result, as were many others.
Enjoy your soon to come upgrade(s)!
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Personally (having owned SN3 & heard 202/200 many times) I’d go for the SN3. The differences to my ears never made me itch to change from SN3 after hearing the 202 combo multiple times (the caveat being that the latter was in a friend’s system so different speakers, room)… but later the 282 did, as indeed did the 252 from that.
Depends on your final destination - multiple boxes or not. And budget, of course…you could probably pick up a 202/200 fairly cheap, but then you may be saying “hello” to the separarates upgrade itch…and we all know where that leads…kiss your wallet goodbye!
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How interesting, we have a remarkably similar setup and, maybe, a similar taste too. I have Nordost Red Dawn power cords for my NDX 2 and ampli (Exposure 3010S2D). I have Nordost Blue Heaven interconnects and speaker cables. Out of curiosity, what are your thoughts about the Nordost Blue Heaven ethernet cable? Right now I have a very good Chord C-Stream, sooner or later I would like to upgrade it so I wonder if it’s worth spending that much money.
In my personal experience and to my ears, my ampli is closer to the SN3 than your XS3, even though it has less punch than the Naim amps. I decided to prioritize soundstage and detail even though the XS3 punch was very tempting. The SN3 has a better, punchier and more detailed/clear sound, it’s an excellent all rounder. So yes, the SN3 would give you that, especially with a Red Dawn cable. But the NAC202/NAP200 DR combo is 10-20% better if I have to put it that way regarding detail and soundstage (other people might perceive it differently). I tried the pre/final combo with the Totem Forests and the difference was significant compared to the SN3 (my dealer told me that at this point the Sky Towers could become the limiting factor, however some could say it’s subjective).
Even though you are clearly interested about the comparison between the SN3 and the NAC202/NAP200 DR, I would like to point out the following things as good setup is critical to make a system shine, yours has indeed a lot more to offer if it’s not optimized.
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You didn’t mention any rack, therefore I would highly suggest you to consider one. When I installed my Quadraspire rack, I had a significant uplift in SQ: bass got thinner, deeper and more articulated. The soundstage opened and more detail came out. So I wouldn’t skip this part if I were you.
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You didn’t mention speaker cables, if you have at least Blue Heaven cables you will already have very nice detail and soundstage.
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Better jumpers make a difference too, you could consider the Nordost Norse 2 jumpers (I’ve been pretty happy with them).
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Some soft room treatment.
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Dedicated earthing.
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Avoid using power distribution blocks if possible, unless they are audiophile grade.
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One person’s rabbit-hole is another’s major one-off upgrade of course.
What was it about the sound quality of the 222/250 that you thought worse than your NDX2/SN3?
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Without wishing to drive the topic off-course, here is my experience with some Ethernet cables, including Nordost Blue Heaven:
Long story short, it’s good…
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I just found it a little unrefined and a bit gritty & rough around the edges, particularly with complex pieces, in fairness the 222 did have a volume control fault but I dont think that was necessarily contributing to what I heard. I find the SN3 and particularly the NDX2 sweeter and more nuanced.
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Thank you for the suggestions. Let me address your questions:
-I recommend the “Blue Heaven Ethernet Cable”. It’s a significant upgrade from the previous Melco C1AE cable, with remarkable brilliance due to Nordost’s quality.
-The “Totem Forest” speakers would be a great upgrade for me, on par with the Focal Kanta 2, and they’re at the top of my future wishlist.
-Due to furniture constraints, I can’t currently use a dedicated Quadraspire rack, but I’d like to add “QPlus Advance” to my NDX2.
-For speaker cables I use entry-level Nordost White Lightning
-Surprisingly, my basic IKEA sound-absorbing panels are doing their job well.
The idea of going for the “SN3” was precisely to reduce clutter and emphasize accessories and cables. My final decision will be made as soon as I can listen to the SN3 Vs. NAC202/NAP200, but the community’s advice has clarified the differences. Sadly, the Classic line has reached its end, and in the next price list, everything, including the SN3 and NDX2, will disappear
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I’ve never tried SN3 in my systems like someonelse pointed out, the SN3 might be a little more bold.
For me, going from XS1/HCdr to 202/200 has been a clear upgrade on soundstage, micro details, it’s quite harmonically richer. Moreover i probably prefer an older 200 than 200dr, (one the last built) which appears to show a slightly different sonic signature.
Definitely a 202/HC/200 for many, could be the ultimate system, unless you go up to 252/SC/300. Years ago i sold a 282 to a fellow forum member, who shortly after returned to 202
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Welcome, I have to say that our wishlist is similar too (no surprise at this point)!
- Great that you already have an excellent ethernet cable. I do like Nordost cables a lot, so I have no doubt it’ll be worth upgrading in my case. Thanks @sihctr for the links, I’ll gladly read your posts.
- I’ve tried the Totem Forests (standard model and Signatures) as well as the Focal Kanta 2 and the Harbeth Super HL5 plus. They are all excellent speakers, but I have no doubt that the Forests are the way to go, they sound special to me. I would like to love the Kanta 2, but they don’t sound nice with the music I like (in most cases). I have to say that, with the right albums, the Kantas have a fantastic and deep presence.
- QPlus Advance are an excellent way to get a cleaner and more detailed sound without a rack. You could also try the Nordost Sort system (I can’t comment, I haven’t tried them).
- In my experience, you are using a cable that is hiding a lot of information and detail. I strongly suggest you to invest upgrading it. Despite loving Nordost products, I can’t recommend the White Lightning and Purple Flare unless you want to tame the highs/mids or if you prefer that kind of sound. Considering your upgrading ideas, I would consider the Red Dawn speaker cables or at least the Blue Heavens.
- You don’t need to spend a lot of money for a room treatment indeed. If you had good results with some Ikea panels, that’s great. In my setup I’ve put some absorbing panels behind the speakers and also some absorbing/reflecting panels above them (this helped a lot with detail and clarity).
The NAC202/NAP200 DR was on my wishlist too, unluckily now they are gone. I hope for a proper replacement in the future (who knows) or for a better integrated ampli at least.
PS in case you are interested, I was impressed by the Octave V70 (valve amp) too.
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About 20 years ago I used Nordost cables Blue Heaven interconnects and Flatline speaker cable in my then Rega system. They seemed like upgrades, but I was stunned how more of a whole the system became when I switched to all Rega cabling, less hifi more music.
My experience with Naim has been the same so far, which gives me the impression and personal guideline that one has to be above the NDX2/SN3 level first to start experimenting with other cables than Naim original basic cabling for power, speakers and sources.
Again likely a minority opinion on the forum but thought it would be good to mention anyway. Finally, I have no real experience with ethernet cables since I use wifi, but a Chord C-Lite between cable modem and wifi router at least made a difference in stability and speed.
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We may be getting off topic, but FWIW….
I am one of these who eventually moved away from Naim cables for everything except power-only cables ( to Tellurium for speaker cable and Witch Hat Morgana for the rest).
However, like most here who have done similar things, I’d vigorously agree with you. The Naim cables are jolly good.
If you have a phenomenal system and great ears, or if you need 15m of speaker cable that will fit round corners or under carpet, or if you have an issue with cable-dressing for many boxes and so really want shielded cables, swapping cables may be a high priority. Otherwise, I’d argue that it really isn’t.
Also, different is not the same as better, but it is easy to mistake one for the other imho.
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Mentioning Nordost cables makes me consider no further comments.
Its the most horrible cabling in my Naim system I ever tried.
Why people prefer these, screw the performance that much - is beyond me - high price maybe.
On the money.
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I had the opportunity to listen to the SN3 at my dealer’s, and compared to the XS3, some substantial differences emerged, even though the sound timbre remains close between the two integrated amplifiers:
- Greater sound presence and speed; instruments come in with a stronger impact.
- Greater stage presence and a livelier soundstage, especially in the bass.
- More detailed dynamics.
For the rest, I hope the SN3 can perform excellently even at low volumes because I often listen to music in the evenings.
Now, if I have the chance, I’ll listen to the 202/250DR, but the Supernait 3 has definitely convinced me.
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202/200, 282/200, 282/250, anything but 202/250. They just don’t pair well at all.
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I think the SN3 sounds excellent on low volumes, as I listen like that often at night.
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I’m glad you had a good experience with the SN3, I think it’s a great all rounder and it’s an important step up compared to the XS3. I do agree with all the 3 points you said. However I still don’t understand how some people can’t tell them apart, they are very different even though you can feel that they come from the same brand.
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