Sony Bravia Software Update - HDMI issue with MuSo 2

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Hi!

I have been using a Naim Muso 2 as a soundbar for my Sony Bravia TV (65’ OLED - XR-65A95L), using HDMI ARC. This has been trouble free for a few years, and a very significant improvement over the TV speakers, of course.

Sony recently released a software upgrade, which introduced a new feature: when updating the audio volume (either with the native Sony remote or when using my Apple TV 4K remote, which is my typical use case), a small info banner pops up from the bottom of the screen to indicate the volume level.

All nice and good so far… but the banner now pops up every 2 or 3 minutes without any reason / action on either remotes, which is quite irritating to say the least.

I got in touch with Sony support, who asked me to do the usual switch off / on, reset to factory defaults, use a different HDMI cable, etc, etc… with no success. I also confirmed that this is not a consequence of using an Apple TV by disconnecting it completely and using the built in apps on the TV (e.g. you tube). A google search gave me false hope by suggesting the info banner can be disabled - this option is not available on my Sony model, it seems. Of course, Sony does not support rolling back their software so I now “enjoy” frequent reminders of the audio volume level, which is not really welcome.

A fallback would be to use the optic fiber connection but I believe this would lose the CEC features - i.e. allowing me to control the audio volume via the Apple TV remote, and putting the MuSo in standby when switching off the apple TV (basically everything controled with the Apple remote, which is handy).

I just emailed Naim support as well, as it feels like a compatibility issue between the Muso 2 HDMI ARC/CEC implementation and the latest Sony software.

Just wondered if anybody here has experienced anything similar, or could recommend something I have not tried yet…

Many thanks!

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Interestingly, Jordan from Naim support got back to me, clarifying that Naim products are based on a hifi architecture with right and left channels (“commonly referred to as stereo”), so it is possible that the TV is now sending differently encoded data, which would explain the sound drop outs or poor quality.

Needless to say, I just replied clarifying that I do not experience (not ever mentioned) sound quality issue… Is naim support using an AI driven chatbot triggered on the key words “HDMI” and “ARC”?

Mildly disappointing for people (if indeed people are involved at this stage) to answer an email without reading it, it seems…

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So following a SONY software update, your SONY product has changed it’s behaviour. What makes you think this is Naim’s problem to resolve? :man_shrugging::man_shrugging:

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I tried my Muso 2 on another TV and another soundbar on my Sony Bravia TV… both worked ok, which to me points towards an interoperability issue between the Bravia and the Muso (with the specific software releases).

If the issue was down to the TV alone, there is room to believe it would occur with another soundbar (it doesn’t)…

I have had numerous back and forth with Naim support (who turned out to be much more pleasant and responsive over time, which is much appreciated), and they passed the info to the software team (for info/reference only). I also kept Sony support aware - they similarly passed it to their level 2 team.

My guess is that there is a fair amount of leeway in the CEC implementation over HDMI - allowing manufacturers to implement proprietary features allowing finer control of eg soundbars produced by TV manufacturers, beyond the minimum feature set.

Importantly, adjusting the volume on the Muso directly triggers the pop up on the TV… CEC is bidirectional, basically. So, it is not inconceivable that the Muso could originate non necessary CEC chatter triggering the TV popup…

To be honest, disabling the pop up on the TV (which is possible on certain models, sadly not mine) would be my favourite option…

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This further triggered my occasional OCD, so I timed the appearance of the popup banners on the TV - they are coming at exactly 60s interval… This seemingly is not random, but the consequences of deliberate behaviour.

A google search also indicates that CEC implementation commonly rely on messages being exchanged between devices (to assess they are still connected and active).

So one possible theory is that the MuSo 2 is sending a voulme update signal to the TV every minute, as a convenient way of getting an acknowledgement although there is no reason to do so when the volume level has not been updated… It is quite likely that the TV would not keep track of a soundbar level, but just rely on information received from said soundbar when a volume update message is received, arguably, so triggering the popup every minute is logical…

Anyway, passed that on to Jordan, just in case. Thanks to Svetty for his question, which triggered my line of thoughts… I may be completely wrong, of course. :upside_down_face:

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My muso2 was ok with my Samsung TV. Buy when i had wifi issues naim support did say that a lot of TVs struggle with hdmi ARC and the muso2. In the end i realised the muso2 just was not a great sound bar, and sold it.
Went with Sonus and not looked back. But sh1te for anything other than a TV sound bar !

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So why would you update you TV software? What’s the incremental change that’s going to happen? Does the TV all of a sudden have a better visually appealing display? Does it turn on or off faster? Does the sound improve? Is there a better security measure in place? It’s not like anyone is going to hack your TV. I never understood the need to upgrade TV firmware.

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Typically, and in the case of Samsung, they tend to remove features. Like the ability to play.mkv files. Now i have to convert ripped dvds to .mp4 to watch. Some removal of the licence apparently. Not that Samsung said anything, just one day my ripped files would no longer play.:enraged_face:

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It is a smart TV, running Android, so not miles away from a computer, really - there are some regular security patches, etc. as well as new features and bug fixes. A previous TV (same brand) had a nasty habit of rebooting itself every month or so - and a software update cured that…

Generally speaking keeping all software driven devices up to date is usually a good thing in my opinion (I appreciate the latest Naim firmware controversy may attract some negative comments here!)… To each their own, of course.

In the case of my specific TV set, recent software updates included things like the following items (taken from release notes):
…

  • Adds an on-screen indicator when adjusting the volume on an external audio system
  • Implements support for the DTS Virtual:X audio technology
  • Adds audio settings in the Bravia Connect App when using the dual audio functionality
  • Enables notifications and allows you to install TV software updates via the Bravia Connect app
  • Resolves an issue where, in certain conditions, no sound can be heard from an external audio system
  • Improves the general performance of the TV
  • Resolves lip-sync issues when watching TV channels
  • Resolves an issue where the TV could restart unexpectedly when controlling external HDMI devices
  • Resolves an issue where intermittent cracking noise could be heard when using external HDMI devices
  • Enhances security
  • Allows you to use Google Assistant hands-free by using the TV built-in microphone
  • Allows you to record live broadcast via internal tuner to a USB HDD (Excluding Italy)
  • Introduces certain catch-up service apps in the UK
    …etc, etc.

Of course, the first one I copied above is the one misbehaving with the Muso 2…

People have been trying to hack anything and everything these days, so I do not mind security patches.

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To be fair, my experience has been pretty good overall - I bought the Muso2 back in 2019 when it first came to market, with a view to use it as a sound bar via HDMI ARC, and it has generally been very good. The sound quality is a very clear improvement, of course, and so far the HDMI ARC side of things has not been a problem at all, until the Sony update triggered the interroperability glitch…

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Hi Herve,

I’m experiencing the exact same issue, although I’m owning a Sony Bravia 55A95L. For me it started with the volume knob no longer responding to turning it (I’m still wondering if that was just a coincidence). After that, the TV problem you described began, and now every 60 seconds the pop-up banner appears. The volume also seems to fluctuate between moments (sometimes lower).

Because of the volume knob issue, I contacted my dealer. Today I received an email saying they couldn’t detect a problem but pointed me to this issue. Hopefully Sony will release an update soon…

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My honest guess at this point is that the MuSo 2 is sending a CEC message to to the TV via HDMI every 60 seconds as a form of “heartbeat” signal to ensure the connection is alive… this must have been the “normal” behaviour forever, using a volume update type message. Since the recent Sony software update, the TV reacts to it with the pop up feature recently introduced…

Naim support suggestion (sending my MuSo to a Naim reseller to check if it is an issue with my unit or not, by comparing to a stock MuSo they would have) only makes sense if the reseller also has a Sony TV with the latest software and the pop up feature… ie not a very practical suggestion - and I tried my MuSo with a different tv (which doesn’t have the pop up feature), and everything was normal. So unless I find a reseller with my specific TV, the suggestion is a bit hopeless.

With some (a lot) of luck, Sony may introduce the possibility to disable the pop ups on their side, but I have little hope…

I must say, I am disappointed with Naim - if my theory is correct, the software team could at least confirm they are sending a heartbeat message via HDMI every 60s… the support crew is mostly trying to put the blame on Sony, basically. In my opinion, the Sony update simply highlighted a specific behaviour of the MuSo HDMI CEC implementation, with slightly annoying consequences…

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I guess you have a point there. I’m wondering how long it will take either Naim of Sony to tackle the problem. My dealer provided me with a temporary Technics streamer. Soundwise hopeless inferior to Naim but no CEC pop ups… :shaking_face:

My previous TV was a Samsung which had a lot of CEC problem (sending a loud beeping sound through the speakers when the TV was turned on or off.

I must say that, although it being a “small issue”, in my opinion it’s massively annoying.

I’m picking up my unit somewhere this or next week.

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Yeah, if anything your experience is consistent with my guess that the problem is caused by the MuSo behaviour. It is difficult to argue otherwise in my opinion…

Who knows, with a bit of luck @Stevesky reads this and gets interested. He has made wonders with the new radio service, together with his team… I’d definitely get a cake to Salisbury if this nagging issue was eventually resolved.

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It would be quite the trip but if a complementary factory visit is included I will arrange for the cake :blush: :winking_face_with_tongue:

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I had constant issues with my Sony TV and Muso 2 over hdmi that neither company resolved (both blaming the other). Mine was connecting then disconnecting then reconnecting a few times. In the end I just used optical connection and controlled volume with the Naim remote and no further problems

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I occasionally experienced the connection drop, but it is rare.. and yes, the only workaround to my issue at the moment is optical connection + extra remote.

I am clearly seeing the support ping-pong forming too - but the very nature of HDMI ARC/CEC is to enable inter-operability between heterogenous devices in the first place… What I am experiencing may fall in the “unspecified” part of the “standards” but it does make sense for the TV to react visually to a volume level change on the MuSo, so I am still convinced the Naim implementation is on the suspicious side, unless they can come up with a more convincing explanation.

I am also not the only one experiencing this issue (see previous post here)…

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Two days ago, the Bravia received an update. Unfortunately, nothing has changed, the issue still occurs very frequently. What a mess… As long as neither company takes action, we’ll be stuck with this for a while.

Which TV brands are working without issues (Samsung didn’t work flawlessly for me either)?

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Indeed - just updated the TV firmware and it made no difference… still need to check if the notification pop up can be disabled with this version (long shot but some Sony TV / Firmware seem to have this feature), which would do the trick. Will revert accordingly.

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Interestingly, I don’t seem to have the problem with my 49” Sony and Muso 2. I generally don’t use it as a soundbar unless watching primarily musical material usually sourced from my Oppo 105. This week I watched several ballets using the Muso 2. When I set the volume using the Sony remote, I got a pop-up showing volume level, but I did not get incessant one minute pop-ups.

As far as I know, I am running the most recent firmware for the Sony as well as for the Muso.