Speaker cable

[Milletta]

Thanks that is very much appreciated…I thought as much but on occasions even with newer models you’ll get a bit of feedback if you’re not in the slot!!
You have a great day

[robert_h]

Just for comparison:
NACA5 inductance = 1uH/m
& capacitance = 16pF/m

Superlumina moderate inductance 0.74µH/m
low capacitance 66.4pF/m

Whereas the highly inappropriate kimber 4tc
CAPACITANCE: 136pF / m
INDUCTANCE: 0.225uH / m

[feeling_zen]

I believe even that is fine these days according the Steve Sells. Naim amps have had zobel networks for a few generations now and Richard has earmarked the FAQ on cables for update.

[robert_h]

I personally would never consider using that brand of cables with Naim; others would agree. Tolerance of newer models aside; my sn2 is within the “tolerant” era.

Kimber 12TC speaker cables

I tried my Kimber 8TC with my old NAP250.2. It really didn’t work well at all, sounding poor compared to when I used with a big valve amp, and the 250 got hot pretty quickly. I would avoid using it on a Naim amp if I were you.

[Mike-B]

@feeling_zen

Naim amps have had zobel networks

Yes, they have zobel networks, as do all audio power amps.
A zobel in this case is a capacitor & resistor in shunt across the output stage.
The thing that Naim don’t have is a series inductor, Naim use the speaker cable inductance for this.

How this all works is as follows … The zobel capacitor begins to conduct as frequency rises and the 10 ohm resistor becomes the damping element shunting the circuit Q.
With the variable capacitive reactance of the speaker load coupled to a length of speaker cable the Zobel circuit alone may not be enough. This is commonly solved by placing an inductor in series with the amplifier output downstream from the Zobel shunt circuit.
Naim do not have an internal inductor and instead use the speaker cable to provide inductance.

[feeling_zen]

@Mike-B

The thing that Naim don’t have is a series inductor, Naim use the speaker cable inductance for this.

If you look on the New Classic thread, Steve Sell states that the last few iterations of Naim amps can use any cable at any length and that only the early Chrome bumper stuff required. One of his comments is as follows:

@110dB

The new NAP250 does have Zobel networks (makes speaker impedances look more resistive and less inductive) and output resistors. This greatly increases stability with a wide variety of cables. We do many tests during dev. FYI there’s also other compensation networks within the amp (1x lag compensation, 2x lead compensation)

This is the same as NAP250DR and the previous gen 250.

We do still find they sound better with a few meters of cable but no technical reason to not use short cables if it suits your setup.

In others he goes on to state that they tested all sorts of cables including high capacitance ones with runs from as short as 1m to long runs going up and down the corridors and that this inductance issue is really going back only to early Chrome Bumper.

[Mike-B]

That might be the case, but my post is simply pointing out that all SS power amps must have a zobel on the output stage. What Naim don’t have that’s associated, but not part of the zobel, is a series inductor on the output.
I suspect the other reason Naim don’t suffer with capacitive reactance oscillation with later model amps is because they roll off output above 20kHz.

[Chocky]

Deleted, please remove.

[IanRobertM]

Why take the risk - of problems with your expensive Naim power amp…? Just us either Naim’s own cable, or one of the near-equivalents…?

[Lucifer]

As others have said, @110dB wrote many cables would work fine since nap 250.2 if I remember correctly and I have a question about the inductance. What would the sonic effect be if I were to use a low inductance cable as the one I am using right now. It has an inductance of 0,187/m. It sounds really good but I feel it sometimes sounds as if the base is less in control than with the Naca 5. The new cable has deeper bass and a bit more of it though so perhaps this is related too.

[Milletta]

So what are cables that are similar…a lot of manufacturers don’t release their specs?

[n-lot]

Van den Hull Clearwater is an example.

[anon70766008]

I’d say keep away from Kimber, full stop!

[Milletta]

Thanks for the suggestion. I’m looking to upgrade tellurium Q Black for my 252/scDr/300Dr/300ps through Sonus Faber Nova Olympica 5’s and potentially to bi-wire so wanting something that could give me a decent step up from current whilst staying reasonably compliant with supposed Naim requirements….the 300dr is only 5 months old so should tolerate a larger range of cable specs

[IanRobertM]

Start with Naim NAC A4 - the original which came before A5.
Then Linn K20, which is a near clone of A4.
Believe Exposure also did an A4 clone, but I don’t know what it was/is called.
More recently Kudos KS-1 seems to be well liked.

Linn K20 is very inexpensive, new.
Both of the Naim cables can be readily found, ‘pre-loved’, on auction sites.

Any of these would be a low risk choice…

[robert_h]

@Milletta

potentially to bi-wire

There is little if any benefit to doing this, and biwiring is not recommended by Naim.

[Milletta]

Thanks for the info…I had Naim cable when I originally hopped on the Naim ladder about 25-30 years ago but probably haven’t used it for 10-15 years…I’ve used plenty of others with little impact ( well no impact) on my equipment…I’ve recently changed power amps (December 22 from a 250dr to a 300dr) and speakers (April 23 from Audio Physic Virgos to Sonus Faber Nova Olympica 5’s and wanted something that could be a bit more performance oriented while loosely staying within Naim criteria (I’m on the fence about this with much newer gear but haven’t been far away from Naim specs none the less)…cheers

[Mike-B]

@Milletta

…. potentially to bi-wire

Bi-wiring is a no-no with Naim as it halves inductance & doubles capacitance as seen at the power amp output.
That’s 180 degrees in the wrong direction, Naim work best with high inductance and low capacitance.

[HungryHalibut]

If by ‘performance oriented’ you mean expensive, why not get some of Naim’s Super Lumina? They match the 300 perfectly and are very fine cables. Naim can also supply jumper leads to connect to the second set of terminals. Jumpers are the best option here.

[Milletta]

Thanks, that’s very helpful info