That’s why it’s important to use a sub that’s a sealed box unit. A ported sub will of necessity be slower.
The n-Sub is sealed, and “speed” was the over-riding priority in its design. It’s one of the few (only?) I would ever use for music.
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They do the low-pass filtering in the sub, after the amplification of the initial signal, to maintain the same character of the sound that is feeding the same speakers. While a low-level input for subs may work for cinema, where “grunt” is more important than micro-dynamics, for stereo it does make sense to have the sub augment the main speakers using a signal as close as possible as the one coming into the main speakers. That’s why here the response time (the speed) of the sub is so important, to keep it as close as possible in sync with the main speakers. Also why one of the recommended places to put the sub is close to the listener, not close to the speakers.
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I understand that several companies will make-up the required cables. I was wondering whether a 4 pin DIN to Neutrik Speakon connector, using REL’s Bassline Blue would be worth pursuing?
Where would the 4-pin DIN go? The Neutrik connector is high level and that cable either connects to the speaker terminals directly or the amp’s speaker terminals. A DIN low level output would not connect to the REL high-level (Neutrik) input.
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You can’t go from low level (DIN) to high level (Speakon). If you use high level, you need to find a way of connecting both main and sub cables to the same socket. The easy way to do this is with the Naim modified version of Rel’s Bassline Blue which has stackable bananas and is intended to allow you to connect at the power amp output sockets. It’s quite an expensive cable, but Designacable make a much cheaper version. The stackable plugs look a bit clumsy, but it’s a simple, plug and play solution.
I can absolutely second that. I have had one - well integrated - subwoofer in my setup for years now and it really opened up the soundstage. I love it! In my case with the Atom HE I drive it from the XLR outputs without issues.
Recently I got the opportunity to test with two similar subwoofers and it made some of the room modes disappear and it sounded more balanced. What I did not expect is that I also heard stereo effects in the bass. Really cool!
Long story short: I ordered my second subwoofer today and it is for stereo playback only. So from a 2.1 to 2.2 setup. Even when my main speakers go down to 43hz.
BR,
Richard
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The only part of that which makes any engineering sense is the part about positioning the sub closer to the listener than are the main speakers (acoustic path compensation for the group delay of the sub’s amp and driver).
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I recently got pair of speakON cables made for my pair of Rel T3. I can say, it sounds way better with the high level connection. It just sounds like it mixes better with the system and if your amp is strong in bass, it would show the character aswell
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Yes, we are both saying the same thing differently. By sub speed I mean how short is the filtering delay and combined driver response, the shorter the better.
Hi.
I use a pair of Graham Audio passive subs, Sub 3, with a pair of Graham Audio LS5/9.
Being passive, no tweaking of settings is required.
Each sub just sits directly underneath it’s partnering LS5/9.
The frequency range is, sub 35Hz to 100Hz, Bass/mid driver of LS5 100Hz to 3Khz, tweeter 3Khz to 16Khz.
The subs just disappear into the background and help the music “breath”.
The subs connect to my SN3 speaker connections and then the LS5 connects to it’s partnering Sub 3.
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Like most of the tweaks discussed on here, there will be those that say it’s great, those that can’t hear a difference and others who hate it.
I’m intrigued enough to find a demo subwoofer and see for myself.
I would be extremely surprised if anyone claimed that a poorly interated sub was in any way subjectively preferable to a well integrated one!
May I ask which output you use?
Of course, but is a well integrated sub better than no sub…perhaps those that say they don’t like them haven’t got it well integrated. Anyway I was thinking of trying one prior to this thread appearing so I’ll give it a go and see what I think.
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Do you still have your D20R’s and do you feel they are lacking in sub bass?
Interested what you find if you do test a sub with them.
That said I do use a BK Electronics XXLS400 but is for AV duties only.
Yes, I still have D20Rs. The specs say they go down to 28Hz, which seems quite low compared with similarly sized alternatives. I guess I’ll only know if I’m missing sub bass when I try. Seems like you already have a suitable sub to try with yours; have you not experimented?
My speakers are -3db at 28 Hz. I can’t imagine not using my pair of REL S/510. Everything is so much improved with them, plus they really do dig deeper (-6 db at 20Hz).
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Power amplifier output
I did use with my last speakers but have felt no need to use with my current ones for music.
With the D20R’s I actually needed to dial back the bass response given a room mode through DSP. This evened out but also has extended the bass response.
You are right the speaker is not full range but to my tastes produces as much bass as my room, system and ears can take.
Given this I was curious or intrigued if you thought bass needed to be enhanced - have you measured the frequency response in your room?