Super 20 nightmare

If that distance is less than the 6’ you quoted earlier, then please ignore my earlier advice.

Tape measure is your friend. Don’t move them closer together. Try to move them out a bit so the fronts of the cabinets are at least past the fireplace, measure so they are the same distance out from the wall behind them. Then toe them in so that in your listening spot which I assume is in front of the fireplace, Toe them in so that you just can see the inside edge of the speakers, when sitting in your I assume centrally located spot. There are VERY few speakers that can create a strong focused central image firing straight ahead. Looking at pictures of your speakers I don’t think they will focus facing straight out.

So to make it simpler pull the speakers out at least a bit 6-8 inches past the front of the fireplace. if you can use all of the rooms 12ft width, thats 144 inches in width. I’d do 84" apart inside edge of speakers that’s 7" apart with about 2 ft from either side wall. Then toe them in at the listening position. at that point you should have well defined focused central image. you still may have to tweak it a bit, but you’ll be almost there.

And IMHO I would not move them closer together that’ll just squash the soundstage width… You’re trying to create something approximating and equilateral triangle with you at the point.

Think you the distance apart as soundstage width. Think of toe in as a focus control

Manual online says no closer than 45cm to a corner due to bass response and mid-range loss. There may be some calculation there that tells you the distance to the back or side wall, but I would start with them 45cm from back wall.

Opus has a good point, the front of the speakers need to protrude out from middle object if there is one. And yes, move them apart to open up, and make that triangle to listening position.

Scott

Here’s another thought. Does your fireplace have doors on it? Because if not and it’s open your center image maybe in the fireplace; weird suck out, this might be what you’re hearing. Again if it has doors keep them closed when listening. If no doors just say a movable fire screen try putting something solid in front piece of carpet anything to test if this is also contributing to your problem.

Any Update Lemans3?

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Some years ago I had a pair of Kudos C20s for a while. I eventually realised I was avoiding playing many of my CDs because I was finding them uncomfortable to listen to and moved the speakers on. But my issue was with the hot treble and hard to control bass, rather than a central “hole”. I agree with others that this is likely to be an issue with positioning. I found the best imaging, in my somewhat larger room, was with them well away from all walls, further from back wall than side walls and firing straight ahead. This may be tricky to achieve in your room.

If adjustments to position and orientation don’t sort things out, it could be worth trying them with some alternative electronics, once that becomes possible again, to see if the problem really is with the speakers. Also, just a thought, IIRC my C20s came with port bungs. Not sure if this applies to the S20s but it could be worth checking that the ports are clear. Ultimately, though, these may just not be the right speakers for your room, the C20s weren’t for mine.

Roger

hi roger, thank you for your post. super 20s are base ported with a fixed plinth gap, so bungs are not needed and are very tolerant of room placement . your comments on hot treble is true to a lesser degree with the super 20s but I do feel that part of the problem with s20s in my room is the tweeter,and being a big part of there sound they are very detailed at the top there for showing up any variation in placement. I can set them up so I get a broad even sound but that is not why I got them, I wanted a detailed speaker to reveal all the money I had invested in my lp 12 , I know s20s can sound fantastic when you get them right . so I am still trying to get them right I have made some improvements with toe in and I am going to try some adjustments to toe in today.

hi all, after weeks of trying to get the s20s to play ball I spent an evening reading through some forum topics and came across Richard danes post on mains extension blocks. shut the front door I sad to my self, I’ve got a mains block in my set up with surge protection ( tacima cs 929 bp) so after some head scratching I ran the pre/hi cap dr & nap 160 to the wall sockets ( the mains block has a 2 meter lead the next nearest mains socket is a twin which is just close enough for the standard mains leads ) bingo, things sounded a lot better, but due to lock down iam stuck with the mains block feeding my nat 01 & radikal so not ideal. please excuse my rambling post not had the best of days and a bit done in any advice would be great. neil

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posted a update yesterday

Excuse my misunderstanding in reference to a mains block, do you mean a surge protector/power strip or power conditioner for us in the USA? Because yes, that will hold your system back pending the make and model of power strip, and it is not recommended to use power conditioners on naim equipment by many.

None the less, glad you got it sorted and are happy with your set up now.

Scott

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hi scott, the tacima is a surge protector/power strip, and you find it recommended in some hifi magazines in the uk , this is a blanket recommendation and I was unaware of the problem it brings to naim amps. I have now found another power strip I had at home still got surge protection on it but is a very cheap unit and is not as bad as the tacima, so things are better but not great. thank you for your interest , stay safe. neil

Don’t feel bad @334578, it took me 5 months to translate some of the references and humor here to “North America’s” version of English. :slight_smile:

Hello.
I have super 20 s in room of 4,35 x 4,56.
The sound was bright and not nice to listen.
The vicoustic bass extreme bass traps changed everything, the speakers sounded much bigger than before, new instruments like drums appeared, cleaner soundstage with no more overbrightness.
With few hundfed euros the best upgrade maybe forever.

T Hannu

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nice to read this…

IMO folks should dish out on the room rather than electonics or uber expensive speakers…

Do put up a pic or 2 on the systems pic thread… will be nice

thanks !

Sorry it is under construction…

hi hannu, I’am finding that the set up is everything with the super 20s they must be exactly inline & away from the back wall ( I’am at 39cm so far) but in my room it’s the toe in which is driving me nuts, my house is 106 years old and the walls are uneven, I have them firing straight at me so the centre of the left speaker is aimed at my right ear & vice versa. If was able to turn back time I would never have brought these speakers and in the near future will trade them in. bass traps are not an option due to space and layout.so while lock down is still in place I will press on and try and get them right. best wishes neil

Hi Neil.
I have no toe in and the pair is relatively close together

Hannu

Kudos recommend that their speakers face directly ahead and not at the listener (off axis). There is a recently posted article on the Kudos website about optimising the position of speakers (in News and Events). It may be helpful.

hi den, thanks for the heads up, I have had them set up like kudos recommend ,but have made a few changes since ( mains block /interconnects ) so I will give it another try. I didn’t get the luxury of a dealer set up, I should have called this topic" end of my tether 2" :upside_down_face: .thanks for your help. neil

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I find the SEAS Crescendo tweeters a little ‘hot’ in my Kudos speakers (What Hi-Fi reported a similar experience when reviewing the 505s) such that I couldn’t use Chord Signature speaker cables in my set-up. A switch to NACA5 sorted this as it’s purely a copper cable with a mellowing effect on higher frequencies. Might be worth seeing if your local dealer can loan you a pair of Naim NACA5 speaker cables to see if that resolves the problem. Listening ‘off axis’ (i.e. with the speakers not pointed directly at your listening position) is another technique to mellow high frequencies as others have already suggested.