Just a thought…
I wonder if my experiences reflect those of others here…we do not change phino stages anything as frequently as we do other components.
My first outboard phono stage was in the 1990s and my progression has been:
Linto → DV P75 → Aura.
Thanks for all the help, @Geko, @Suedkiez and @Yeti
I didn’t know the advice about capacitance-loading when I got the Superline, so did it by ear.
The 470pF plug is the smallest I could live with for keeping everything controlled in my room. 560R plus 470pF beat 500R plus 1nF or 560R plus nothing, for example.
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Yep still own a LP 12…see my profile for system details thanks for the heads up.
ATB Graham
My guess is that, if the increase in treble from 500R to 560R upsets things, then swapping the 470pF for a higher value (1nF?) will tame things. Does that look right?
Am I right in thinking that z-foil airplug upgrade to the capacitance plus would be a waste of time?
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It’s probably a good method for this kind of thing. With the SuperLine and the Apheta-3 I started with the 1000pF and 100R as recommended by Rega but ended up at 500R based on ears and comparing to the NDX2 (and after being nudged in the right direction by Cymbiosis). A bit smaller R might be better still, but the SL came with the 500 plug and I’ve been lazy because it’s great anyway
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Z foil is the type of resistor, Airplug is the decoupled plug originally scavenged from a hiline but later made available from Naim as an upgrade loading plug. You can put capacitors in an Airplug as my 470pF one is such. The Airplug doesn’t override the correct value loading. If a 1nF plug is going to sound better than a 470pF one then it doesn’t matter if the latter is an Airplug and the former the mundane one.
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I have already organised this, I think.
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Ok thats good then.
You can get a 1nf air plug, i haven’t bothered with them, just on the resistance side for me
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This morning I switched an 576R Airpluz-Z into the Superline in place of the standard 560R I had. After 2 hours, I have to say the comments here were both helpful and dead right - for a Krystal, this is the right mix.
16R is a tiny gap. The net balance is slightly more treble-y, than with 560R but it is marginal - like bringing the speakers another few inches forward. It is not enough to justify changing the 470pF capacitance loading for (say) 1nF (which I also have).
What the airplus does to sound is more interesting. A few things are a touch better, but bass (e.g. Jaco Pastorius on Joni Mitchell and Weather Report LPs) is notably better controlled and more fluid.
The bigger change was that on (say) Graceland, Dummy, Parcel of Rogues, Mindbomb and Kind of Blue the key change is better stereo imaging (esp more height and more depth). Not quite what I was expecting, but I’d call that an upgrade.
Swapping back does not bring the sense of relief, but an immediate desire to put the airplug back.
Thanks again for the tips.
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Thats great and as said the only way is to try
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Sounds about right. When we went through a similar exercise for our Dynavector XX-2 cartridge, we also found resistor value changes of 15-20 ohms to be significant. Naim recommends the 470 Ohm for DV MC cartridges but we (like certain Leicester-based Naim dealers and many owners) tried the 453 Ohm and this is the one to have.
I really think Naim should include a 576 and a 453 in the standard Superline set, as the 500 Ohm one sounds poor in comparison with DV, Lyra and Linn moving coil cartridges. It is odd to charge over £2k for a high end phono stage and not to offer the load plugs that work best with the most frequently used MC cartridges in the UK market.
Pleased that the 576 works so well for you!
Best regards, BF
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You wouldn’t want to increase the number of plugs or the price goes up.
100R (Transfiguration and a few others) and 220R (Ortofon) have both come in handy. 1000R is useful to have for combining and also covers Benz Micro.
I’ve never had a use for a CAP plug over 1nF and 470pF has proved useful but the 500R with 453Rand 576R in the set is probably redundant.
Fat chance I should think.
Hi Bluesfan, your post regarding the Z-453 follows precisely my experience regarding loading for the DVXX2.
ATB Graham.
Thanks Graham, we are not alone.
The difference in sound quality between the standard 500 Ohm plug and a 453 Ohm Z foil Airplug on a DV cartridge is so great that I still don’t understand why Naim offers the 500 Ohm standard one. It’s the difference between mediocre and great.
We decided to follow a different path with our phono stage but the Superline with the 453 Airplug and a Supercap DR supply is really quite amazingly addictive to listen through.
Best regards, BF
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So how does the Moon phono stage compare? Interested to know why the switch from SL/Supercap…
Hi bongoman,
I started a thread a few years ago when we were looking to upgrade from the Dynavector P75 mk II phono stage. I auditioned quite a few phono stages in the £2-4k price range and was amazed at how different they all sounded and how few actually sounded right with a DV XX-2 cartridge.
The SL/SC-DR was the best that we heard but it was over £7k back then. I only really liked the SL when it was powered by the SC-DR. It didn’t tickle my music gland at all when powered off our 52/olive SC.
The only other stage that came close was the Moon 310LP + 320S power supply. It was £2.5k at the time. Not a hard choice to make, given the price difference. We ordered the Moon stage and enjoy it to this day. As the turntable & cartridge have improved, the Moon stage has let all the improvements flow through. The SL + SC-DR and 453 z-foil Airplug is still better though. So are the more expensive Moon phono stages and they only need 1 box to deliver the goods …
Hope this helps, BF
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Thanks @Bluesfan
It sounds like we’ve had similar experiences with the Superline and auditioning other phonostages. When I demoed the SL I had my 552/300DR and powered it from the 552. I wasn’t particularly impressed with it either powered by the pre, and I noticed a loss of sound quality on other inputs too.
However, I do like the flexibility and design of the Superline by having the plug loading options at the back, rather than fiddling with switches to change loading settings, as with many other stages. I feel Naim are spot on with this.
I’ve since moved on to Sugden Sapphire amps and I’ve ordered the Sugden PA 4 MC/MM phonostage to partner my Hana ML cart on my Thorens TD124 DD. The PA4 also supports external plug loadings, as with the Superline rather than switches. I have 200 ohm plugs to match the Hana and it works very well.
I should also give kudos to the stellar Sugden customer service who have kindly loaned me their demo PA4 unit while my order is being built!
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@Bluesfan - interesting.
I use a Superline with an olive Hicap into my 52. It is not as good as using a dedicated Supercap but it is very good (and I had a Hicap spare and shelf space is an issue).
I was advised that a separate PS was really not vital with a 252 (different, not necessarily much better unless its new SCDR being the summary) but was absolutely necessary with my old 52/ SC.
Does anyone with a 52 do this?
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I thought both the 52 and 252 powered inputs were provided by two dedicated rails from the Supercap powering the preamp ?
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