Other alternates we had - within the house - was the NAC72 internal MC phono boards. Okay. Also, the very capable Rega Aria. Better and good.
But we wished for a better and best solution.
When you look at Linn LP12 owners - for example on the “Show us your Sondek” thread, there are two preferred higher end options between owners, SuperLine and Linn phono options.
We wished to stay within the Naim ecosystem and so examined both SuperLine v NVC-TT.
The StageLine is a decent phono, even better when you add a HiCap. My own experience, we auditioned this option when moving up from Rega Fono and MM Exact cartridge - buying a better phono stage for our Rega TT and MC Ania Pro - ultimately thought the Rega Aria a better phono stage compared. But then, it sits at a higher price point.
I hadn’t seen mention of the ND555 before, is that affected too? Or is that (not totally unreasonable) speculation by @Smoothfidelity based on similarity to the NDS?
Is there anything to be read into “SMT mix” - are any boxes that could be described as such at risk?
For completeness, I should add we also looked at Aura too.
It’s all there in our own journey and Naim Community forum posts.
We also auditioned the Rega Aura too, in a three way comparison with our dealer.
Although at a higher price point, once you factor in PSU’s for both SuperLine & NVC-TT, it becomes a reasonable priced alternative.
I would say, the Aura beats SL and NVC-TT as a single box solution.
The point at which you add PSU’s for both Naim options, that gap is less obvious and it maybe comes down to more nuanced preferences.
( Note : The obvious caveat, to mention , the SL has the unique opportunity to go one upgrade step further by going upwards to a SuperCap psu).
Could have gone with an Aura. It’s excellent.
Decided on a Naim two box option instead.
Obviously - in the wake of current news - now reflecting on this carefully balanced decision (at that time, last year )
Just like the NDS, the ND555 contains a lot of through hole tantalum caps that also go bad. There is a reason Naim changes the tantalum caps on all other products during a service. We can’t go 30+ years claiming the importance of a service and then all of the sudden act like a service isn’t important when Naim decides not to service a product based on their own design mistakes.
If the ND555 also has a large ground plane like the NDS, which makes it hard to desolder the old caps, then it will suffer the same fate as an NDS. I would bet my money that it does.
Any potential issue with ND555 service sounds like speculation. But, would we expect Naim to say anything other than the ND555 is fully serviceable?
The non-serviceability of the SL was only revealed after they stopped selling it.
Well put. 30 years of being able to provide a service that brings benefits (agree) but now not required/ can’t be done. So which one is it ? Id like to see the recommended maintenance strategy ( and ability to deliver it) before i buy any more from naim.
Am i being miserable or are the products going to 10k landfill, glad we stuck with olive, we won’t go further, software and firmware glitches, no future servicing, sorry we’re out. They don’t want to convert old users anyway, its obvious
Martin
I’m trying not to get too pi$$ed over this. I already have a decent phono via the Cyrus Phono Signature and their PSX-R2 PSU.
But an opportunity for a cheap and mint-looking SL was too much to ignore. Just add £399 and I’m future-proofed, and back to as good as the day it was born.
If this was a Stageline, I’d let it go. But it’s a 500 Series product. 500 Series!
It is not a good idea on a Friday afternoon, not some daft marketing lead idea, but an engineered product. And engineering a product goes beyond design. It covers the whole life cycle.
So come on @110dB, YouTube shows you promoting the SL. What went wrong?
The electrical engineer in me thinks ‘what about the ilities’ when it came to design reviews - specifically in this case maintainability and long-term supportability. PDR gives an opportunity for initial review then at CDR the issue should be addressed in detail. I guess the ‘spanner in the works’ must have been the cap sourcing impasse plus the RoHS difficulties with solder. Nevertheless, CDR should provide an opportunity for prototyping routine changeout of key lifed parts by a ‘Naim typical competence’ service tech and enforced a check of available alternative parts to eliminate any chance of bottlenecks. Easier said than done I guess but that’s what systems engineering is for.
Maybe an added complication was outsourcing of manufacture/detailed layouting for these SM boards - making thorough audit at design reviews a critical stage.
Very eloquently stated.
But that idea only amplifies the notion that a design flaw might have been known for some time and an issue has been brewing.
Maybe only apparent and obvious in recent years, now that SuperLines are arriving back into Salisbury HQ for service. With Naim technicians then having to cope, with various degrees of success with an operational requirement to service these items.
Surely, the more reasonable solution is to find alternatives to simply “pulling the rug”. Maybe offer a rebuild including cost of a replacement main board, at an appropriate cost.
From my perspective, I’m not accepting that simply removing service options is an acceptable outcome to finding difficulty with replacing key components in a service update. Leaving owners with a SuperLine with limited product life span.
There are always more mutually agreeable outcomes.
Im not expecting naim to lose money at a service. Although my original quandary was partly over forking out £399 !
Give the loyal customers some options here.
Being realistic, do no expect Naim Servcie dept to operate at a loss or even subsidise certain products.
The more thoughtful approach would be to offer a cost effective solution for both Naim and the customer - mutually beneficial outcomes - instead of simply “pulling the rug”, etc.
Absolutely - not to mention also the appalling wastage of having to doorstop/throw out/dispose of such a materially valuable unit due to this issue in these so-called environmentally enlightened times.
I’m sure that offering up a work-around with some cost contribution would be well received. Those of us out there really like our Superlines !
As I haven’t done the direct comparison myself, I will be guided by you as to which is sonically better. My Linn “fettler and upgrader” thinks the Superline is better too.
However, I would add, that until I heard the NVC in the context of the NC system, I was never tempted to go above the Aria level phono stage, despite hearing many other excellent phono stages and recognising they were better, they never grabbed me enough to get the debit card out. Then I made the fortunate mistake of listening the the NVC TT and NPX TT and it was exactly what I wanted. Is it the best for the money, I don’t know but it has the SQ and importantly the voicing I want and I think system synergy with the NC range just adds that little bit more. It is now part of a system that gives me immense pleasure. In the OC range context, I would think that similar system synergy is also a factor so would to my mind make the Superline the choice.
Remember chatting with you about this at the time. It really does depend on your start point, which is maybe part of your point.
We nearly went with NC. If your start point was NC - for example NSS222 - the NVC-TT is probably the more obvious choice.
For our part, we waited quite a few years and for NC to arrive. Had a hunch a new phono option would be part of the new range. Then considered both NC and OC options before making a choice.
This carefully considered approach, is now a part of my frustration. With better information - knowledge of this issue - might have gone a different way?
Regardless of specific buying reasons, think the normal and reasonable customer expectation is to confidently assume that new Naim products will enjoy full support. We recently bought a SuperLine assuming - expecting - a service at first service interval, say 12 years. That service option has now been removed. Astonishing.
So, I’m really frustrated and disappointed about choosing what we considered to be the best.