I had it for several years but the « several box » concept + cable to deal with was a bit to much for me.
So was looking for an « one box solution » without any maintenance…. so listen a lot till R… A… Then deal done
Another point already mentionned by other was the the « maintainability » of naim product. This was initially for me a key for choosing Naim, but as naim is now part of french group i have some doubt on the management…more looking on sales and benefits than long time classic customers support (no local repair center anymore in my contry…) so sort of “new era”
I would like to believe in it, but I have some doubts. A member posted above that he had serviced his Nds and then it sounded better, surprisingly. He originally sent it to replace the fascia screen.
The thread has already pointed to a number of really negative and strange aspects of this decision.
I understand the problem described by Naim, but I don’t think the solution to just drop service without further notice or a heads up, as an acceptable option for an product that still is sold new, or in relation to customers who trust Naims ethos of service and repair. Is a new Superline now sold with a sticker on it that says “Will not be serviced by Naim”?
I was looking for a Supercap DR to the Superline. At the moment I’m glad I didn’t buy one.
Presumably many sold units will have reached the service time frame recommended from Naim by now. Some sort of solution should be considered and offered to customers who would like to keep their Superline at the performance it was made to have. At least some sort of window of opportunity to get the unit ready for another 10-15 years of expected performance level should be offered. Could come at a price, but should still be available as an option.
Yes I am more disappointed in Naim more than anything. NAUK does not have a good enough tech to deal with the mounting hole and large ground plane!? Sounds a bit like a poor excuse. I understand that it’s not quite efficient task as it requires a lot of concentration, gentle touch and skill but AV Option got it done for me. ( thanks Chris! )
I do have a love-hate relationship with the Superline. It is one of the very best phono I have ever heard and worked great till the unit became unstable after a continuous 12 year usage. One thing I suspect is that aging components inside make the unit unstable hence the need for the recap.
As Naim no longer recap it and so far the only remedy they suggested was a zobel network and/or cap plug which both are bandaid and does not address the underlying issues.
I would like my healthy Superline back.
For those who are not having motorboating issue consider yourself lucky. I would have left it alone if I did not have the instability issue.
This whole thing stinks. I can’t help to suspect that Investor/owner putting pressure on profitability and pushing for a better efficiency over taking care of loyal long standing customers.
I understand that Naim has changed but this one hit me harder due to how it was handled and statement from the HQ.
Realistically what Naim seem to be saying is that they could continue to service SLs but that this would entail a regular need to replace PCBs when desoldering fails. Thus the limited supply of PCBs would become exhausted.
Then there would be not only no further servicing but also No More Repairs of SLs that failed.
In this situation it’s entirely understandable that they have made the pragmatic decision that they have.
Kuma, The instability on mine first occurred following a change of arm but it took a large transient with the volume on the pre turned up a bit to trigger it, turning the volume to zero and back to lower level quelled it, or muting and unmuting.
Did you change arm or cartridge before it appeared? I remember you used to run an Aro, an arm that’s never had a problem with my superline.
This is the message I sent to Focal/Naim via their website, as was, back in May with a few more details.
System is full 500 series plus supercapped superline, all are DR or in the case of the 500 DRed and all plugged into one linear wired and unfiltered power block. Signal earth provided either via a ND555 or by grounding the tag on the 552 to an plug’s earth pin. Feeding the superline from either a Transfiguration Proteus, SPU Royal N, SPU Century or Denon 103 each on a Korf SF9R tone arm, arm cable is either an Ortofon or a Lyra phonopipe.
If I connect the ground wire of either cable to the superline and either the music or a switch somewhere in my house or attached garage produces a sharp transient the system starts making a loud sound like a motor boat, muting or zeroing the volume control stops it but it occurs even with the arm in the rest. leaving ground unconnected and switching the garage lights produces a loud noise in the speakers but no motorboating, there is no parallel ground to the arm cables, armboard is polycarbonate. I’ve had an electrician check and improve my house earth connection, which is via a rod driven into the soil. The only hint I have is that it’s less sensitive using the Denon.
Using the Proteus on an Aro there are no such problems and the Korf carrying a Goldring 1042 and feeding a stageline N creates no issues.
Testing the Korf arm with lyra cable attached but no headshell shows ground continuity of less than 1Ω (same 0.6Ω for Korf and Aro so good to the limit of my meter and leads) from tag to headshell coupler but isolation of the ground from signal wires to the 20MΩ limit of the meter, using an LCR meter shows a capacitance between the ground wire and any one signal wire of around 100pF but no resistive or inductive reading, though the meter is old (AVO B183) it reads correctly a 2.2nF capacitor I have to hand and also the resistance of a 1kΩ superline loading plug.
Any ideas as to what’s going on? Using the motor boating symptom to test things out is less than ideal and could cost me my NBLs, though I’ve got away with it so far.
What makes you assume more boards couldn’t be made? It was a current product up until recently. If they wanted to stock new boards as an alternative to a service for those that wanted to pay a bit more for the service then it could absolutely be done.
In my case, the trouble started out with just like ours. A large random pop after I switched from ARO to the EKOS/1 with their tone arm cable.
The popping went away after we installed an old Linn Ittok cables from the 90s. If I could get the ARO tone arm for it I would but alas, Naim no longer offer that.
In my case turning down the volume all the way down did not make any difference in loudness of the popping.
I thought all was well till one day it started to go unstable out of blue by motor boating. I think someone more technical can correct me either random popping or motor boating it all leads up to the Superline going unstable for whatever the reason.
A product with this calibre should not be having this kind of noise/instability issues.
How old is your Superline? also how old is the power supply driving it?
Mine was bought ex demo early in 2009 after the shop had had it a year so one of the first. It was serviced in January 2020, a bit early but I thought I’d get it done before my planned move to France in the summer. I don’t seem to have a job sheet from the service so no idea if the board was changed.
I used it with a Rega arm at first, which I’d had for a couple of decades but six months later bought an Aro. In 2017 I bought a Schröder Reference but after using an SPU Royal N on the latter I got curious about a full SPU pickup head and looked for a heavy arm to carry it. After getting the Aro I’d found most arms with ball bearings unsatisfying, except for Schröder’s CB but including SMEs and a Glanz I heard a couple of years ago so the idea of the Kotf’s flex bearing looked interesting and there was a three month full refund offer on the early ones. I received it last May and the motorboating started shortly after but only with the Kotf. I tried two arm cables and various cartridges but all motorboated if I connected the ground wire and not if I left it hanging.
I transferred my 2013 Supercap DR to the Superline when I bought a 552 in 2015. I didn’t try powering from AUX once the motorboating appeared, didn’t even think of it. After my enquiry Naim mentioned that motorboating was an occasional problem powering a superline with the supercap DR, but they had a mod that would only cost what it took to send them my superline so off it went. They were specific about the DR supercap being involved.
Because Naim are a business not a charity. The cost of commissioning a batch of boards - assuming suitable components are readily available - would likely be prohibitive.
Perhaps the impact of one thread, relating to a niche product with limited sales, on one forum, isn’t reverberating across the wider global consciousness?
Do you think any of Naim’s activities have ever reverberated across the global consciousness? I don’t. They are in the wider scheme of things a very small, specialised company.
I do however think that a not insubstantial part of the target audience for what is (to say the least) indeed a niche product is potentially likely to come across this. How many people in this day and age are going to make a decision between Superline/Urika/Aura etc without doing some online research, very likely starting on this one forum. I’d think very few.
From a commercial perspective there is no such thing as “prohibitive”.
Only what a customer or customer group is prepared to pay.
All prices are “elastic”.
One view - maybe the view of 3-4-5 service technicians - might be, this task is really challenging. To the extent it’s onerous and also not cost effective. (At least at current standard service cost of £399. Sept 2024). It’s fair enough that one interest group think that way.
Seems like the business management has listened to that important interest group, done the numbers and arrived at a policy decision.
Another view - maybe the owner user community - maybe 500+ Naim SuperLine owners, would take another view. For example, okay, sorry to discover that. So tell us what it will take to ensure we get a service undertaken? No reasonable methods or costs to be rejected ???
Surely, that’s a more reasonable - mutually beneficial - solution to such a situation. For all parties, service technician, Naim business managers, customers and users.
Price elasticity is a well known concept in business. Amongst all businesses, premium brands are the ones most accustom to this idea.
You think ? These aren’t multi layer boards ( as best as i can tell by looking).
It is traditional through hole tech with simple components. It cant be expensive. Even go to china if that is a option for manufacturing.
Ive not asked for a service st £399. Although tight now, id snap their hand off. As would others Although last week that was the price.
Give SL customers EOL notice to service and prices based on what happens if a new pcb is required.
Since you inquired days before the announcement, and got a quote at that point, shouldn’t they at least service yours as an exception? Even if they don’t offer it to anyone else going forward.
I think if Naim take a business decision that’s fair enough, whatever people here think or expect. But a bit of leniency in cases like yours would reflect well on them.
I agree
Also suggested - at the top of this thread - Naim might make an exception for Robert and honour that quote.
That’s so simple to do.
But, there is a much bigger issue for customers such as me - my use case - mine is 12 months old and it was bought with the assumption - expectation - the product would be fully supported and a service be provided at first service interval, say 12 years.
What would forum members suggest for that user case?
