Still you need more than “just” a mediocre source.
Could do 282/200DR; three boxes, one of which tiny and meant to be hidden anyway.
The point is to provide more power where speakers need it, though. The 200 would give you less.
Is it though? Is that what they actually need?
The whole point of this conversation is that biamping fulfils a need in situations where speakers demand more power for people who don’t want the additional expense of full separates. If you have such a pair of speakers, or move to a larger room, the extra power will clearly help. Replacing a Supernait with a 200 will not. It’s as simple as that.
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Did you ever see the OP mention that this was a difficult speaker or that they were actually lacking in power and not just that they were reacting to the biamping fad in general?
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Guys. I was the one that started this thread.
It is not a matter of lacking of power. It is a matter of improving the sound quality. My speakers are Monitor Audio PLii 100.
Below is an extract from their User manual which I want to check and implement -
The Effects of Bi-Amping;
Fundamentally a loudspeaker crossover varies the impedance seen by the speaker and by the power amplifier. The situation is such that when the full range musical signal is applied to the terminals of a full-range speaker system, the bass driver(s) only receives low frequency signals, the mid driver receives the mid band frequency signals and the
tweeter only gets sent high frequency signals. This means that if separate speaker cables are connected to the low frequency terminals, and the high frequency terminals, not only have the drive units and the frequency’s directed and divided for them, but the two separate speaker cables will now also carry different signals, the bass cable mostly the lows, and the tweeter cable mostly the highs.
In a single wired system, unwanted mechanical and electrical resonances manifest as distortion at both sets of speaker terminals. Due to the impedance of the speaker cables, these distortions will not be entirely cancelled by the amplifier. Instead, they modulate between the two crossovers, and degrade sound quality. When bi-amping, this interaction is minimised as signal distortion is ‘seen’ at the amplifier’s output where it can be more effectively cancelled. Bi-amping therefore presents a ‘cleaner’ signal at both the low frequency and high frequency speaker terminals, and because the high and low frequencies have already been separated, each has a minimal effect on the other - in essence the bass does not overpower delicate treble.
In terms of the audible benefit, bi-amping, provides more clarity and detail to the midrange and high frequencies. Often the bass will become faster and tighter. Focus and staging will improve as well. In all, this is a very effective and desirable improvement and is highly recommended by Monitor Audio.
Just because Monitor Audio say it doesn’t mean it’s an objective fact. If you are determined to do it, then do it, and don’t worry what anybody else thinks. But do the 282/250 vs SN3/amp comparison first. Then you’ll know which is right for you.
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What you have described here is active biamping, which Naim have long been in favour of, and they provide the hardware to do it for those that want it, and have speakers that are compatible. It requires active crossovers such as a Naim SNAXO.
Passive biamping as discussed above doesn’t do this. It still feeds the signal into the passive crossover in the speaker, and really all it achieves is to deliver more power.
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Technically the Monitor Audio blurb has some merit but the more pertinent question is ‘what is the optimal way to spend my finite resources to achieve the best sound quality?’
The answer to this is unlikely to be purchasing a second power amp and bi-amping.
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The answer is not passive biamping then IMO.
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I was simply pointing out that those are the circumstances in which passive biamping can be useful, and that for a Supernait owner, adding a power amp can therefore be a cost effective way to provide more power where it’s required. Your suggestion of a 282/200 was a reply to that post, and in that context, I’m disagreeing with you.
Had you suggested a 282/200 to the OP as an alternative to Supernait/200, I would have agreed with you if he uses easily driven speakers, although a source upgrade should come first.
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Hi @haimsh ! Did you succeed in using the power amp with your supernait? What are your impressions? Thanks!
Why have Naim bothered to implement a Bi amping option on their newest top of the range integrated if it is such a terrible idea?
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Well. I tried it and results were not satisfactory.
I rolled it back.
Maybe the reason is that the nap200 I used is less powerful than the SN3.
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Sorry I hadn’t picked up this thread before. Passive bi-amping is of dubious benefit, and in my view only worth trying if you happen to have a spare amp and feel like playing. Your experience doesn’t surprise me. This is very different from active multi-amping where the passive crossover is removed from the circuit, and speaker drivers each driven direct from a power amp with no crossover circuitry between.
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I’m still intrigued as to why Naim would add it to a new design perhaps one of the Naim staff members could explain.
There are some speakers that benefit from biamping. The socket also allows you to add a bigger power amp such as a 250 if you wished. Say you had a SN3 and wanted to move to a 282/250: you could connect the 250 to the biamp socket and use it as the power amp. You could later add a Hicap, and finally swap the SN3 for a 282. Having the biamp socket therefore provides a great deal of flexibility.
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My SN2 have same feature, believe the original Supernait too, so factual aprox two decades old design.
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