Well what a day, I am shattered lol
Lots of things tried and quite a few conclusions from it all and some might be interesting to some, will do a proper update in the week, but got to respect the other parties in this as well.
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Will dig into all in the week, but I will say a 2 hour visit turned into 7 hours
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Well first off thanks to both parties involved in making it happen, I know one wonât ever probably see this and the other probably not as well, but thanks anyway.
First off, I was sent a RCM theriaa phono stage to try mainly with the thales set up I have and more importantly the exquisite cartridge, because I have been struggling at times with harshness and wanted to see what another phono stage might do over my tron severn gt.
Then to add to the fun a lovely SME 30/12 with a very expensive koetsu cartridge fitted to its 12 inch V arm, this made my thales look puny and so small next to it, but then one looked like it was made in a shed, the other a boutique lol.
First off we just played the thales with the exquisite ST into the tron, we both agreed this was a very detailed, fast, lively and a lovely sound stage, all round a nice sound, I then played a few tracks that I knew would show up the harshness and it did.
Next I swapped over to the RCM, I had already adjusted the load and gain, to what i found worked best, straight away it was noticeable different, more bass, not quite as good on vocals but the rest much the same, but the much better low end did make everything sound more dynamic and certainly better at low volume, I could have easily kept it, it was very nice and suited the exquisite ST probably better than the tron, plus I liked the adjustment you have and miss that with the tron. But once again the tracks with harshness are still there, but slightly less so.
Next I swapped over to the dynavector and kept it on the RCM, even more bass, less detail, infact less everything, but it did have more warmth and sounded nice, plus it played the harsh tracks fine, but after the exquisite we both decided that we would probably go with the exquisite and just not play the tracks that sound harsh.
Next the dynavector on the tron, this was a better match, as the bass was tamed and this let the midrange and details easier to follow and pick out, it had a nice warm sound and one I remember well from when it was on my SME, also no harshness on the trouble tracks at all.
So time to get the SME going, first off we ran it with the tron, fantastic bottom end the best so far, it was deep enough without being to much, it also had a nice top end, but it did sound slower and certainly not as lively, the guy summed it up as he said, âitâs like a good birthday party compared to a stag doâ if you know what I mean. But no harshness.
Next into the RCM, straight away this was much the same, but now the bass was totally dominating and too much for my room, we put on daft punk and it was just ridiculous, we did adjust the settings and found a slightly better result, but most just made things worse, and out of all the things we tried this was the most disappointing.
He did want to try the exquisite on the SME, but I didnât want to remove it from the jig, as I had spent a long time getting it right, but it would have interesting to do.
So what did we learn.
Well we both liked the exquisite ST and thales deck on the right album, he said that it was the most detailed deck he had ever heard, and at times made the SME just sound disappointing, if you can ever say a SME 30/12 is disappointing, but not my words, but at the same time it can be to much and harsh and thatâs disappointing.
I asked him which one he would rather have, to which he said both please, but went on to say that, he was surprised by it, as he didnât think it would as good and certainly not better at times and looking at price, its a bargin.
For me it certainly hammered home that the SME 20/12 is not for me, as thatâs only going to be worse than the 30/12, and for me the 30/12 was struggling to keep up, it does have a lovely bottom end to it, but it just sounded a bit dull in comparison and slower, itâs still very nice, donât get me wrong, but now I have heard this, itâs hard to forget.
But he did have a very good suggestion, if I decided to keep the exquisite ST cartridge, I should get a second tonearm set up and put the dynavector on it, for them harsh tracks, especially as my tron has 2 inputs.
But I am still being told that the ST will carm down , it just needs lots more hours on it, we both are slightly unsure off that statement and that does worry me.
But a great day messing with it all, I know that my tron phono stage is not really a problem going forward and thatâs nice to know, just got to either go with my dynavector and try and forget the exquisite or maybe just try and work through the pain with it and hope it comes good in the end, or maybe try and do a 2 tonearm set up, but not sure how I would do that on the thales deck.
Cheers dunc
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Very detailed and honest review. Interesting. So apparently a difficult choice.
I agree for the SME sound a bit dull. Itâs a fantastic deck, so nice, beautiful, open, organic and well organised in the soundstage. But it lacks some speed and urgency, unfortunately.
Personally, from all your description, I would keep the Thales, and Dynavector with Tron.
I prefer to sacrifice some details and accuracy and have nice and colourful tones.
But itâs me.
Thereâs a last solution: Lyra Etna or even Atlas. It will combine the nice tones of the Dynavector and the definition and dynamics of the Exquisite. And the Tron will not struggle with it, as itâs a medium output, not very low. You would have both worlds into one.
If the Exquisite canât cope with some tracks, itâs surely not that great. Good hifi should play anything. Having to get two arms with different cartridges to choose according to the music is leaving all common sense and perspective behind.
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âŠI, too, have always regarded the idea that some components are better with different types of music. Music is music, be it good or be it poor music (personal choices, of course).
Itâs quite the opposite, itâs very good, as I said its probably needs more time to fully bed in, I have been told this and keep being told this, its just how long and can I be bothered to do it.
I also donât think having 2 arms is for me, I know lots do this for various reasons, but it looks like more hassle to me.
Also I have found that good, really good hifi shows up whatâs good and bad, and quite the opposite to what you say, I found that appiles for more medium levels, that just canât pull apart a track to the same levels, maybe thatâs a better place to be, but when you hear it done much better its hard to forget and go backwards
I was not familiar with X-Quisite cartridges before this thread, but the buzz on the ST is very good. Rave reviews in Stereophile and Absolute Sound, available online.
I don t know if I miss something but did you try the superline? in my opinion with the supercap dr is really top notch
Hi I have had a superline, supercap Dr, z foils, etc, so been there and have the T shirt, as they say, itâs a nice phono stage but feel it would have been out classed in this company.
Plus I know now my phono stage is not the problem and the tron severn GT is a very nice one
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I didnât compare them side by side but for sure tron are outstanding phono stage, I dont know nothing about pre and power amp
Thanks Dunc - all input is good input and your thoughts on the SME 30 correlate with many of the views Iâve heard about the 30 over the years e.g. accurate & detailed but a tad unexciting and lacking zest, which is why some reviews Iâve seen have advocated the 20/3A as the better option - although when compared to other TTâs at this rarefied price level, it has similar traits. Of course, what downstream kit will also play a major part.
Itâs a case of how do you take your tea!
And I know what you mean about the industrial look of the SME when you get close-in. In photos, it looks well proportioned and compact but, aside from the arm, it doesnât look as it costs (so to speak).
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All the reviews observe how well the SME are built. You may be the only one to point that it doesnât reflect its cost.
If you were talking about the Lp12, I would agree.
Agree for its sound signature.
Well decided today to keep the thales turntable and the exquisite ST.
Going to try and put the hours on it, as like I have said it is a lovely thing most of the time and if that bit goes, then I will be left with a truly superb cartridge.
Also going to keep my dynavector for now atleast, but might end up selling it, need to see how things go.
But very happy with how the thales stood up against the SME.
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Yes the more weight just kills the liveliness of it somewhat, I found that I prefer a deck with some weight over the light weight regaâs, as i feel it adds a better bottom end.
âŠany idea about what proportion of its life span passes before it is on song? For me, this would be an important consideration.
Remind me if youâve played with arm cable dressing. sometimes the cable touching something like a rack shelf or a wall can add a bit of hardness. Can you try different arm cables?
On a different level of cartridge. I had occasion to put me spare cartridge on my Schröder Reference recently a 17d3. Itâs been a while since Iâve used it and then only on an Aro.
After a bit of fettling I thought I had it sounding pretty good but somehow the music was moving neither my feet nor my emotions as it usually does. When I feel dissatisfied I tend to experiment, one of these was adding a little capacitance to the superline loading, 1nF in this case, made all the difference to that engagement factor thatâs so hard to pin down.
As I have said this beding in time has worried me, I have asked lots of questions and been assured it will sort itself out, it has got better, but itâs not there yet, but then trying to work out how many hours it has on it now, I would say around 15 hours max, then I have a little way to go.
The dealer has a special record that you can leave running and they did this for 3 days apparently to help bring it along.
Yes I have played with phono stage position, arm cables etc.
I went with the continuous arm cable, so canât change this and this also might be causing a bit along with the cartridge, also my tron phono stage has no adjustments apart from 2 different fixed loads/gain settings and itâs the same on both, apart from different volume level and slight tone
âŠahâŠI had the impression that it had much more running in time than that.