I will continue by offering this advice. If you’re more or less happy with the speakers you own AND you have sufficient power to drive them, then focus on the pre and front end. I could have built a system around any of the generations of Harbeths I have owned. In hindsight I would’ve stuck with the 30.2 AE.
I preferred the 30.2XD to the HL5+XD in my room. I love the midrange to really be the focal point of my hifi and here the 30.2 was more engaging. Also in terms of speed the 30.2 is more capable being a smaller speaker than the hl5xd although considering its size the larger speaker does very well here indeed. If anybody had thought Harbeth speakers are bloated and slow, erm not anymore.
I had a Naim Nova powering Harbeth shl5-xd and enjoyed the sound in a 21 sq meter room. When we moved to a home with a larger room, 49 sq meters, I was not happy with complex music with a lot of dynamic range.
I tried a considerable more powerful amplfier Hegel h390 and it worked really well. So I agree Harbeths sound better with more power.
So my take away is don’t do A/B comparison. Listen to one speaker for a prolonged period. Take a lengthy break and then listen to the second.
Interestingly I’ve always thought as many on this forum have noted. Listen to a new component in your system for a period of time. Then take it away and see if you’re missing something.
Whilst I wouldn’t say I had long listening sessions I’ve definitely noticed a bigger difference when I go from the best speakers or amps down than I have going up. So I definitely agree that you notice what you’ve lost more. Originally when I tried the p3’s for a few songs then switched to the m30.2 the difference didn’t seem that big. But when I went from having listened to the m30.2 & c7’s back down to the p3’s again the difference was more stark. I had a similar experience demoing amps previously. So I’ll definitely do any demos from top down from now on.
I would know a better speaker or, rather, the speaker I like better, whether I listen “up” or “down”! And if you are given enough time and space, you can of course do it up and down, then up again and so on until you are sure. And speakers (as with anything) should best to be auditioned at home, under no pressure.
One has to have witnessed Mr Shaw’s ways a bit better to see beyond the “educational” mask : )
His own declared Harbeth speakers selling strategy at the dealer is “A plan to reach a conclusive result quickly and efficiently with as few distractions as possible.”
I thought I’d post an update. I’ll be auditioning Rogers LS5/9 SE soon to compare to my Harbeth 30.2XDs. Not that I feel anything is missing from my setup. Just some more fun from the hobby.
I’ll post my impressions over the coming weeks. Btw I purchased a pair of Roger’s LS4a speakers recently. My god these things are so so good for the money- they sound far more open and engaging than the crop of affordable speakers available today.
I have had similar experience and come to similar conclusions: drive 'em with what you will, but they’ll ‘wake up’ with beefier, more powerful amplification, and, resolve incredible detail and dynamics with better front-end signal quality. The phenomenon is as significant as trying an entirely different or ‘better’ speaker altogether…
I have owned C7ES3s (2016 manufacture) for my entire audiophile journey and have owned and/or home-trialed numerous amps in my listening room, including:
-Rega Brio, Rega Elicit-R, Rega Aethos
-Prima Luna Evo 300 Int
-Uniti Atom, Nait XS2, Supernait 3 (w/ and w/o HICAP), NAP300DR
-Luxman L550axii, Luxman L509x
While any of the aforementioned amplifiers work fine in terms of tone/timbre reproduction and volume, the difference between a Luxman509 or NAP300 and the NaitXS or Brio is huge. They just get better and better as one’s electronics do. The way the speakers transform, disappear, and come alive with holographic reproduction of music defies expectation.
All to say, Harbeths offer tremendous value for money over the long-term as one invests in their system. They’re a variable one can keep constant and trust to reveal system changes over the course of ‘the journey.’ So if a pair work in your space, rest assured there is much performance to gain if you so desire.
Very well said. Of all the speakers I have heard and I’ve heard plenty I prefer the design philosophy of this speaker. That is the thin wall cabinet with two drivers closely integrated LF and HF. Even with the 3 driver setup I notice a little something missing in the way the sound is presented. Something off about the midrange.
If I hadn’t become used to the open sound of the thin wall cabinets I think I would’ve enjoyed so many other speakers. I’m so accustomed to this sound now that many other designs sound closed in to me. With the XD models the 30.2 is lightning quick. Let me offer a comparison, I’ve recently bought the Linn Kan mk1. They are fronted by a tube pre and NAP 135s. This speaker is hailed for its speed but honestly I cannot tell the difference in terms of speed between the Kans and the 30.2XDs in my two different setups. Yes the 30.2XDs have a 500 series driving them but then the Kans have close wall proximity, metal Kan 2 stands and a smaller box.
I’ve owned the Rega Elicit mk2, the predecessor to the Elicit-R and briefly tried Nait XS, and it’s a same experience. The difference between these integrateds and a 282/250DR and Luxman L-590AXII is huge. Once you have experienced a higher level amp, the lesser one although enjoyable doesn’t quite cut it anymore.
I feel this reinforces the spectrum of performance and long-term value these thin-walled boxes offer us music lovers. Something one can acquire for reasonable money, install in the home as heirloom furniture with timeless design, and grow with over time should one choose.
Interestingly I had a lend of a Rega Osiris whilst my previous SN3 was off for repair, it has buckets of drive and detail and I was dreading going back to the SN3, when the SN3 returned after about 6 weeks I was pleasantly surprised to find it was a lot sweeter and more refined to my ears than the Rega, this was all in to my Classic Spendor 3/1’s. I was left with the impression that you can ‘over amp’ these thin wall speakers.
TL;DR: a) Replacing 3-year-old Blu Tack mounting resulted in stubborn removal but no veneer damage, and b) the clear bumpers yielded very subtle improvements to sonic performance.
Today, I swapped the quarter-sized, couple-years-old Blu Tack coupling my C7ES3s to my custom Gig Harbor Audio speaker stands with 3/8" Clear Bumpers (the kind you’ll find at your neighborhood hardware store).
The purpose for this change was to: a) prevent damage to the cabinet veneer that can occur over the long term, and b) properly level the speaker on the stand which had gone a bit catawampus from gravity smooshing the Blu Tack over time.
My speakers were stubbornly coupled to the stands after 2-3 years since last I mounted them with Blu Tack, but had no veneer damage so don’t worry too much if you’re reading this and a Blu Tack user. However I think if you’ve had them Blu Tack mounted for longer than a couple years, you might consider a bit of preventative maintenance.
Sonically, I did experience a slight performance improvement in clarity and focus. I can’t quantify this, and won’t try to describe it for readers, but if you were to ask me now which is ‘better’ - Blu Tack or the dots - I’m going to respond “dots.” I believe stand design and type matter greatly in the performance of Harbeth speakers (and other similarly designed, thin-walled BBC-ish speakers), and the coupling is a component of the overall system worth tweaking to extract a bit more performance. Costs less than $5.
Another new product by Harbeth. The very small active NLE-1 speakers. Alan Shaw wrote this while in Munich.
Configuration possibilities: Actually, the combination of the NLE-1 and NAIM Atom HE has already been recognised by visitors yesterday. I overheard several discussions with dealers suggesting just that simple solution. Subject to checking output/input level matching, that sounds like a great (and affordable) combo.
The Harbeth NLE-1 is indeed an interesting product and I hope it is a good match with the Naim Atom HE. I am listening to headphones more but still listen to speakers the majority of the time. The built-in amplifier and the promise of room correcting software is interesting.
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