naim have already given their opinion on where the new PSU sits.
Will be interesting to see how close listeners think it is to a 555.
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I think the look of the 222 is fantastic, well done Naim! Leading up to the announcement, there was lots of chatter about a 272 replacement which of course happened. But interesting with the 222, others in the thread have mentioned the DAC portion looks similar to the nd5sx2. I wonder if this is a case of history repeating itself where they DAC in the streamer/pre combo is not as good as the DAC in the stand alone streamer? While I havenât done a comparison, other have reported the DAC in the 272 wasnât as good as the DAC in the NDX which was the stand alone streamer closest to the 272 at the time the 272 was introduced. This time around I was hoping the DAC would be on par with the NDX2. Even with the NDX2 many have reported that adding the old nDAC with external PS gave a nice lift in performance. Perhaps this will be the case with the 222 as well. It still perplexes me why Naim hasnât produced a updated stand alone DAC with the popularity of the nDAC on the used market but thatâs a whole different thread. At any rate the proof of the pudding is in the eating so Iâm looking forward to reading reviews from those who get the opportunity to listen to the 222 and compares to others.
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The 222 has no digital output. External DAC not an option.
A future streamer/DAC might have, if naim were to introduce such in 300 series to replace NDX2 (or perhaps rearchitect/improve DAC/analogue output stage, who knows, maybe a new chip).
The nDAC/555 vs NDX2/555 is very very close. The DAC in NDX2 is very good, so makes sense to retain it for a possible separate.
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I read that last post slightly differently
Maybe context is everythingâŚ
The DAC (in the 222) is also interesting to those users with alternative DAC options and digital sources. For example, users with nDAC, or ND5XS2 + nDAC or maybe NDX2 + nDAC, etc.
This could still be used - as an additional analogue source, into the NSC222 product.
So, it useful to understand the (SQ) performance of 222 DAC element.
Myself included.
KR
R
Edit : Now that you have edited / added to your first post, that makes more sense.
Thanks for adding extra.
We are agreed 
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I think that partly depended on whether the 272 was bare or being used with a power supply. Same for the NDX, of course.
Roger
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What? Spend 8K EUR per box only to want to hide it? 
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Ha ha yes apologies I pressed send after 1 line oops
We do agree.
Iâm sure in time people will try all combinations of input source. But if you have an ND5XS2 for example surely it would be traded in as part of move to 222. Some with an NDX2 may decide to do the same to reduce box count.
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This is my biggest concern. Personally I think the new offerings deserve a big congratulations to Naim and they certainly meet the needs of those looking at a simpler 3 box solution. 272 owners have had a long wait for a replacement without knowing if one would appear. You could feel the frustration from the posts. Unfortunately those of us who were slowly building towards our more classic multi box systems have now instantly been plunged into the postition of the 272 owners. I currently have NAC282 / Hicap DR / NAP250 DR amplification and do not want an intergrated preamp / streamer. My end goal was a combination of NAC252 / Supercap DR / 300DR. At this point I have no view of what is in the pipeline to replace the classic preamps and if there are to be new offerings what backward compatibility there will be to allow me to slowly move to my end goal. Iike many I can afford to move up the Naim hirachy but not to ditch what I have and instantly move to a new top end new classic pre / power setup. A big attraction of Naim ownership may therefore have disappeared. So do I stay as I am and cosider it an end point, buy second hand to reach my current endpoint desire, look elsewhere or simply wait to see what happens and hope the wait is not as long and frustrating as that of our NAC272 forum members. I would there send out a plea to Naim to learn the lession from the NAC272 situation and at least give its loyal customers who have been slowly building their systems an indication of what we can expect moving forward and roughly when. At this point we have hit an instant dead end!
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Thanks Ebor, nice simple demo.
âŚThis effect also had an influence on the design of the NA009 power transistors for Statement (and now NAP 250/300/500 etc)
The first samples had ferrous legs (due to expansion coefficient matching of glass insulators). These legs would vibrate on the test bench and audio signals could be heard clearly coming from the PCB. The leg vibration would set off the PCB acting as a diaphragm. This was driving dummy loads, not speakers.
The ferrous legs were cut off and replaced with copper legs. The copper legs were so much quieter⌠but the big difference was in the listening room. Copper legs sounded significantly better. All production NA009 have copper legs.
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Many users will have the NSC 222 on top of their equipment racks. There may be a small performance benefit for doing so but the striking appearance of the NSC 222 will also be a factor.
The brushed aluminium top plate will no doubt be a boon. I also note that the Wi-Fi and Bluetooth antennas are now within the body of the NSC 222, we no longer have antennas sticking up at the back. This was never a pretty site and is now a thing of the past. Hurray!
That was quick! Did you get the 300 psu?
If 252/300 system is your goal, lâd simply look for very good condition used/ex-dem. Not pointing this at you, but i fail to understand the logic of having to buy new. Especially when you can have used equipment readily serviced. Like i said, this is Not a swipe at you and good luck with your future plans.
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I assume that the classic products were under continuous evolution. Is it possible based on serial number to find out what the differences are between an early NAP300 and a later one? Obviously transistor trickle down from statement and addition of the DR technology. Maybe other interesting tweaks that were mentioned earlier with the transistors
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I remember experiencing this on a factory visit many years ago.
It was in the chrome bumper era and Julian did the tour. It was an open Saturday as I recall.
There was a power amp on test with a dummy load, a 250 I believe and you could hear the audio and somebody asked where the speaker was and of course the reply was, âthe sound was coming from the PCB, or more correctly the transistorsâ. Now we know why!
The of the visit highlight was the demo room of course, with a full 6 pack system on demo (Isobariks).
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I donât think it would be very easy to integrate a DAC similar in architecture to the NDX2 to a combined streamer/pre. Not without having basically a double decker PCB layout across most of the unit. As it is I think the case is already pretty tightly packed - the MM board is vertically mounted, and I think I see the DAC board next to that and under the NP800 streaming board. Iâd love to know what âlevelâ the NSC 222 DAC is seen as, but that kinda misses the point of how it sounds in situ, as you point out. Keen to hear first impressions and reviews of this unit.
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Things never stay completely still - before DR there were some changes during NAP300 production. The first was a modification to the protection circuit as it was found that certain speaker crossovers could trigger it prematurely. This modification is applied to older units when they return to Naim for servicing. There was also ROHS, where potentially hazardous materials were removed from components. This was a huge undertaking, particularly in selecting a lead-free solder. The aim was to achieve ROHS compliance before the deadline while at least maintaining or even improving overall performance at the same time.
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This echoes what I have been saying. NAIM needs to quit keeping its cards so close to its chest and publish a product roadmap. I mean Canon/Nikon/Sony do this with lenses as soon as they release new camera bodies. Why canât NAIM? Camera manufacturers do it to get their loyal clients excited about what is to come and what to invest in.
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True enough and the Naim team have been great on here throughout this thread. Fact remains though I still donât know yet whatâs going to be the best long term option for meâŚâŚyet. Hopefully the next announcements wonât be too far off.
Couldnât agree more. Canât see how it would impact sales either in doing so. If youâre intent on completing a classic system then you can pick up some good deals. If not, like me, youâre just going to wait it out.
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My point is simple. Yes I can still reach a 252 / 300 based system but perhaps I should have said level. One big advantage of the original classic components was the ability to "relatively " inexpensively move up through the naim system incorporating new components if necessary and to take advantages of improvements in performance once a level in the hierarchy was reached. This gives us the option to continue to grow and improve our systems or to stop at a certain point. The introduction of DR technology was a good example of this. I may be happy to purchase second hand as suggested and have done in the past, however it would be good to know if the ability to tap into future sound quality improvements would be available without ditching what I have so I can make and informed decision. I also assume but perhaps mistakenly that Naim may want me to purchse their products in the future.
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