Tricky one as comparisons are difficult with a brand new device. You would have to listen and decide which you preferred.
I suppose removing the routing of the audio signals via the power supply has allowed the simplification of the PSU options (and cabling) to a single unit for both digital and pure analogue products. Saying that, the NPX300 is quite an expensive PSU upgrade so perhaps a simpler Type 3 output only version could follow ?
Interesting times indeed.
The new Classic Range looks promising…the roll out of the 300+ series may be of interest, dependant on timescales. If the new pre/power amps (or integrated) have a proper volume control, good low level balance, and don’t hum constantly…and sound amazing, could be a potential 552DR/500DR replacement.
Have a demo early next week to have a looksie/listen to the current new offerings.
And what do I do with the ‘green glow’ in the listening room…
Have a good Sunday
Glad you’re enjoying the SuperLine, it was a great project to work on. I remember it being released and playing Hugh Masekela at a show. I kind gent went and bought Dave Brubeck’s Take five and left it for all to listen to. What a fabulous community.
RE NSC 222 pre-amp section
It’s just over half changed. However all very naim design philosophy.
If we take the naim pre-amp signal path:
input selection → filters → Volume → output stage
The input selection is improved with constant current source drive to the reed relays (filters noise on the energising coils)
The input filters are very similar (two zero feedback class A single ended buffers making a Sallen and Key filter. Using ultra low dielectric absorption custom capacitors) but run from +/- PSU rails. This leaves the ground slightly cleaner.
The volume control is a surface mount miniaturised version of Statement. Has fixed resistors where the level is picked off using reed relays.
New headphone amp that doubles as the output stage. This is like a mini naim power amp and being small it has speed and agility. As an output stage it runs class A and when it drives headphones it slides into class AB for the peaks. The headphone mute relays isolate the headphone Zobel network when not used.
All the analogue stages are simple class A discrete transistor circuits. These are then placed in a clean environments such as separate linear PSUs.
There’s also an element of manufacturing and supply chain simplification here. We’re always being reminded that Naim’s factory struggles with turning out products given its modest footprint and staffing levels (a side effect of the value of the “Made In England” label). Having to only make one PSU rather than half a dozen is clearly appealing. The fact it costs what it does probably doesn’t figure in the overall strategy. You can embed a lot more internal improvements in to the signal chain when considering OC (Old Classic) vs NC (New Classic) that in many cases negate the necessity for additional PSU’s, less so at least than in the past.
Interesting ideas there.
I’m thinking we should expect at least two PSU options. Maybe NPX 200 and NPX 300.
However, it would be nice to see a good - better - best approach. With the entry level as a shoe box size replacement for HC, which could be used in lots of different ongoing ways. For example, with XS3, SN3 and their eventual successor.
I guess the really cool idea is for Naim PSU’s to be universal - with connections - that work up and down their line. Well done for that.
Edit.
A bit more insight into my comments on a successor for show box size HC, going forward.
The HC is one of Naim’s longest standing, most enduring products. Probably one of its most commercially successful too. That is, an entry level PSU. It allows Naim users an entry point and experience into the uplift from a dedicated external PSU.
So, I imagine something that fits into this price point going forward.
Just read through that. FWIW, had arrived at some similar conclusions. Plus a few other ideas too.
Just a quick comment, it reads like there might be a lot of love for a higher level integrated (higher than existing SN3). That might be an interesting development.
Yes. Interesting times.
KR
R
Where Naim evolve the NAIT is certainly of interest, the current SN3 + NDX 2 is to my mind and ears at least, a real sweet spot in terms of price/performance.
I have to admit, I’m curious about the next Nait also. Its iconic status interests me most out of all of the Naim boxes really, and I do wonder how Naim will take the integrated forward, be it Nait, Supernait or Hypernait. Exciting times ahead.
Yes, good point. The factory was certainly packed to the gills on the forum factory visit just before the new NP800 based streamers were released back in 2018.
I’m reminded of a nice phrase…
If it aint broke. Don’t fix it.
I would be pretty sure SN3 is one of Naim’s best selling products. Maybe XS3 too.
So, my guess would be we see these products to continue. In one form or another.
Albeit, improved SQ over time, and adapting specifications to meet future evolving needs. In order to remain competitive, etc.
KR
R
Did naim even attend the CES show? A friend tried to find them but couldn’t.
They’ll get to those products eventually as they migrate the portfolio and likely significantly simplify it.
By the time they get to the 500 Series they’ll probably have developed a new Statement and the existing one can replace
the 500 Series.
They’ll need to do a refresh on the NP800 digital subsystem at some point, I’d expect within the next 5 years.
I expect when 200/300 Series digital sources appear they will include that digital refresh. The 222 uses existing technology and components to that end, they’ve just engineered those festures to a different price point and done so driven by time to market constraints, it’s good enough for the target market essentially.
Sorting out the PSU’s and analogue stuff first makes sense. The 222 they needed to do to keep relevant with the rest of the market and satisfy the legacy 272 install base who’ve been sat getting covered in cobwebs waiting for it to appear for years.
The NAP 250 stands out as being the most exciting product of the three and one that can function across many system configurations with relative ease.
Long but interesting thread. New series sounds great and as discussed 300 range likely later. As a former 272 owner I very much like the smaller box count idea. My concern is how second hand prices are affected particularly obsolete kit like the 252/Supercap. To maintain existing equipment like ndx2, 555ps, 300dr need to buy intermediate cables. Frankly my thought would be to trade in whole system and go for 200 system whilst resale values are reasonable. Possibly see what dealers are saying over the next few months
I would say yes, a bare 222 should be better than a 272/555 but of course I have not tried it.
I did have a 272/555 and thought it was great, but out of curiosity I borrowed a modern DAC and fed it’s analogue output into the 272/555 (so this was just acting as a preamp), and I was blown away with the uplift in SQ. I’d be pretty sure that the 222 streamer/ DAC implementation is way ahead of the 272, and even adding a 555 wouldn’t close the gap significantly. But you would have to try for yourself of course.
One have to add to the calculation that boxes bought new will loose its value much more than the drop of the classic series likely will be. All classic boxes be it 555PSDR, NDX2, 250DR is on the second handed market around half of it’s new value. Purchasing new is IMO always the most expensive alternative long term if you are not getting the end game. I guess those are rather few
Sure
That’s the way I see it too…
500 series is safe for now
So too the Si and XS series
And separate streamers (ND5 XS2 & NDX2) will continue
Short term, next 12-18 months: Introduction of new Classic line.
Medium term, 3-5 years : Eventually, next iteration of XS3 and SN3 will see new design treatment and be folded into this new line somehow. Also, the streamers ND5 XS2 and NDX2 too.
Longer term, maybe 5+ years. Then turn to the 500 series with latest goodies and innovations, added at the top end
For now, this is all about Classic evolving to New Classic, which looks to be going into 200 and 300 options.
Several other manufacturing brands have already rationalised their offer and configured into a good - better - best strategy. It’s not a new idea. Just interesting to see what Naim’s approach might be for the next 10-20 years.
Muso + Qb
Uniti
100 ???
200
300
500
Statement
We are witnessing decisions which will be the main stay of their product line up for a while.
That’s what is quite exciting about the future products. Clearly the 222 is a bit of a hybrid driven by market need (and remembering it’s been delayed) - proven tech like NP800 board, a fettled TD DAC chip well understood from ND5XS2 but with general uplift across board and innovative pre and output stage improvements as Steve has elaborated on. And a new 6 regulator PSU which has clearly undergone extensive listening testing.
Is the two year R&D project the new digital platform, built around a new DAC chip? NDX300…Or is it the next statement, with resulting trickle down.
In the interim at least one new pre. I can imagine the pre chain improvements from 222 at a higher level of isolation and implementation with further enhancements, driven by NPX300, in a dedicated pre sounding very very good.
300 will also, I am guessing, soon be replaced by something incorporating all the improvements and learnings from new 250. Redesigned from the ground up in same way as 250. But at a clearly higher performance level (to differentiate, otherwise who would buy it) and hence higher cost point. Perhaps monobloc amps, a nod to the vintage 135s?
I think I have about 24 months to work on SWMBO accepting a mix of green and white logos in the lounge
Still the biggest part of naim sq upgrades in my experience have been separation of power from the fine electronics. A naked 222 will compromise on this having a big transformer close to the DAC, Streamer, Pre.