To my mind, as someone who has been in IT all of my working life (and is now retired!) it shouldn’t be all that hard to at least get Gen2 and NC streamers working with Tidal Max. After all, we already get hi-res FLAC from Qobuz. So why are we still waiting?
Fundamentally, I feel there must be something else at play here (speculating) to explain the very tardy response and apparent unwillingness of Naim to engage with their customers. Any ideas?
I am starting to think they don’t have a software guy.
Naim uses Streaming Unlimited streaming boards and this company not only released a firmware update with Tidal Max back in Mar, they have since released another firmware update with further refinements. Naim is now 2 firmware releases behind. It is my understanding that Naim just has to tweak these firmware releases a little bit to make it Naim branded but all the major work was already done.
And here’s their latest that adds Autoplay to Tidal.
Thanks. That’s very interesting. So why is it September and nothing from Naim.
I have asked for an update. I’ll let you all know when I hear.
Thanks @Richard.Dane. That would be good if you can get a helpful response. Having refreshed my Naim setup in February, as I anticipated my ND5 XS wouldn’t be able to stream Tidal Max, my justification at the time makes me look a bit foolish to my wife!
Well, I haven’t been given an exact date (yet), but it seems that it’ll hopefully be sooner than previously indicated. If I get anything more specific I’ll post here.
Hi Richard, did they say which month they are aiming for?
I’m not allowed to say at the moment, but it’s close. I guess they’re afraid that if they have to miss their projected date for whatever reason (usually because they’ve discovered a last minute glitch in the testing) then it’ll create more issues and disappointment than if they said nothing. Past history on this and the previous forum shows that they’re absolutely right on that score, so I guess that has made them reluctant to repeat.
This is good news. Thank you for checking.
Hopefully they’ll reflect on their handling of all of this and implement a consistent, transparent comms policy around software/firmware roadmaps going forward.
Well, having worked in the software industry a good while I don’t really agree. My experience is that keeping an open and honest communication channel with customers works much better than keeping them in the dark.
Finally, after 1 year and 460 posts, something close to official engagement with an issue that Naim customers appear to feel quite strongly about.
It’s not so much about the software industry, but about not naming a date until there is a very high level of confidence. It’s far better to promise silver and deliver gold - in this case say December and then beat it - than to publish an earlier date and fail to meet it. Expectation management is a tricky thing to get right. There are still things to iron out, and it’s far better to get it all as right as possible than to release something with known glitches. We really do need to trust Naim on this, and hold back on the ‘I know best’ posts, which don’t help anyone.
The quality of the naim app, and frequent complaints on this forum and many Facebook forums, should be a red flag really. By all accounts the recent release regresses basic things like volume control and search box. (No idea we no longer use it really).
Modern hardware (from an end user perspective) is judged on the software/control app and ability to add new features (Apple do it every month - younger viewers expect it. Vendors like Innuous have a regular release cadence).
For Tidal this should be a no brainer. The Tidal app is excellent, great slick UI, responsive, great usability. naim ONLY need to upgrade their firmware so Tidal Connect supports Tidal Max. If the naim native app is behind, or never support Max, is it an issue? NO.
My “one developer” comment was slight tongue in cheek, as I imagine they have at least two.
For app developers not sure why this isn’t offshored. I could get a sh*t kicking Tidal alike app for a client in weeks.
Mate they arn’t taking people to mars. This smells of out sourcing and getting a different software guy each time.
Underpromise underdeliver.
The problem might be the antiquated “protocol” used between the app and streamers. I presume the 222/333 simply extend this, but not having access to one cannot confirm.
You might expect a nice REST API based control interface, but the communication (if you debug the app) is based on a packet based ID/command type interface (uPNP perhaps excepted, there are established standards for that). If the ID is out of sequence (as far as streamer is concerned) you get the horrible “another device is connected” which used to be a problem intermittently on our 272. Combined with firmware issues which also bugger the TCP stack it didn’t make for a happy user experience on gen1 devices (usually solved by an HTTP request from control device to 272, then app started working correctly - I had wiresharks of our 272 not responding to broadcasts but after the HTTP request starting to talk correctly, clearly a 4.8 firmware/network stack bug, but lost interest when we sold our 272).
So I’d imagine any development work on the app, and the “naim” proprietary learning curve for any resources employed, contribute to the very very slow pace of change.
Regression bugs such as those being reported on latest app around volume control and search, well that’s just evidence of poor quality control/test unfortunately.
I’m sure there are many professionals in this area on these forums who know that if THEY delivered this sort of work, well the industry doesn’t suffer fools and word gets around.
Could be worse, just look at Sonos right now
Actually I would say this is the opposite problem. Naim are trying to prop up obsolete software, Sonos tried to rock it to the moon with new software.
Incremental change is always the better route!
Make it look like you went to the moon, just add a few v2 APIs 