To 222 or not 222?

I’d agree, but gents like us with a room full of boxes are in the minority and a dying breed it seems :frowning_face:

I’d suspect nDAC/555 is streets ahead.

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Well, vinyl made a strong comeback - maybe (vintage Naim) separates will too. :grinning:

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Same price, new for new?

Given a list price of £10k for the two electronics items still made, and £1,200 for the two cables, I suspect Jimdog’s comparing second hand prices for the older kit, or you can get an NDAC and 52 (presumably with Supercap though not mentioned) for £200.
52s tend to go £3,500-£4,500 second hand (assuming you want a power supply to make it work), NDACs are at around £1,500, ND5XS2 £2,000 (based on current listings for the latter 2), so £7-8k for the electronics plus £500 for the cables s/hand gives you the saving against new list prices of recently launched kit. If you buy new this would cost several thousand more.

Yes, second hand.

Hi Jan
Looking at the Ti data sheet(s) as stephen_tate pointed out shows the PCM1792A in the NDX2 has a much higher SNR than the PCM1791A found in the 222. There are other areas where the 1792a also achieves higher quality. The 1792a in the NDX2 is much closer in spec to the 1704 (which is no longer in production) found in the nd555.
The 1791a is found to great effect in the unity Nova and ND5 xs2. I imagine a nova with a NC 250 would be a good upgrade to separates in the future when a stand alone streamer and preamp become available.

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By all accounts it’s the same dac chip.

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The DAC chip isn’t necessarily the whole story though, I dug out the basis/rationale for my probably a bit over the top/bold statements, and replied to the post you quote above :wink:

On the plus side the NSC222 has a better volume control implementation, and can be improved by an external PSU. On the minus side (as with any integrated solution) there’s a lot of electronics crammed into a single box.

My point was that the NSC222 seems to be a pretty good Naim streamer, a pretty good Naim headphone amp and a pretty good Naim pre-amp. In a single box. That, in the context of a Naim system at least, represents fair VFM in my opinion

And I should say, I haven’t heard one! I’m just mildly curious if it is worth considering one, rather than a ND5 XS2. I was surprised to read about the similarities between it and the Atom HE, and that fact changed my opinion about its perceived value for the better.

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My observations were made having done some further reading following an interesting demo of the New Classic combo compared to (ND5 xs2, SN3) and a full (ndx2 282 nsp300) system all into same speakers and using my own playlist. Ears 1st principle.:slightly_smiling_face:

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I fully admit to being an armchair commentator only at this point :slight_smile: I would love to have a listen to the new kit. When I think I’m getting close to being in a purchasing position then I think I’ll darken a dealer’s door. I wouldn’t have previously considered a streaming pre-amp, so this thread, and the details of the NSC shared by Naim staff, have probably changed my audition plans!

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110dB/Steve Sells wrote on main Naim Classic thread:
“As a headphone amplifier NSC 222 is better than Atom HE. (better DAC, filter and volume sections).”

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I thought I’d read that whole thread, but just found your review comments! Interesting stuff, ta for posting them :slight_smile:

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Comparing DAC chips doesn’t make complete sense unless you take into account how they have been implemented and the DSP applied. Only listening will tell the full story.

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@garcon compared recently the Atom HE vs 222, both into SN3. He hardly could find real differences. So the streamers inside both seem to be at similar level.

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I wouldn’t put much value on that comparison.

I think I recall reading the comparison, and being slightly unsure about how things were connected up. Is that the basis for your caution?

It’s a jalopy set up overall but yeah, cables and Chris mentioned the grounding as well. It’s not an ideal or intended use set up so the comparison is not of much value imo.

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I’m not even considering a NSC222 but I would not worry about the DAC as they (mass produced 3rd party ones at least) are all as cheap as chips (pun intended). Implementation is the key thing. Naim know how to get the best from whatever they decide to use.

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This is for the most part true. However, the cost of high quality capacitors can be 100s of times the price of a standard unit.

I’m not worried :slight_smile: And was trying to explain, in numerous posts (e.g To 222 or not 222? - #2 by gthack) in this thread, exactly that the implementation context was also important, and also quoting posts from Naim staff about it. Somehow it looks like everyone now thinks I’m obsessed about the DAC chips X)

Genuinely appreciate the reply though :slight_smile:

For the record, I absolutely agree that the implementation is important :someComplicatedEmojiDenotingFirmAgreementWhilstAlsoPointingOutThatISaidAsMuchInTheFirstResponseToTheOP: :wink: :peace_symbol: :joy:

Speaking of the OP, sadly they’ve left the forum too :pensive:

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