I started out that way when I bought ER, and then experimented with different order and cables once ENO showed up last summer.
It clearly outperforms ER in my system, and belongs last thing in the chain.
1 Like
The Cisco 2960, depending on the model, is not the quietest of switches.
What about swapping that second Cisco and ER around, so the ER’s B port (designed to reduce noise) feeds straight into the ENO, assuming you have not already tried this?
Also would there be any milage in moving your fibre link closer to the streamer?
Again, I did play with this stuff to discover that, for me, the fiber link was least important and best achieved using a Cisco, which has other benefits compared to a generic media converter (10Gtek). -At least now I had a galvanically isolated audio-only network segment for streaming.
Until I found ENO, the EtherREGEN was the final filter before a Roon endpoint. Now it is stuck in the middle because ENO is so effective.
I only added the 2nd Cisco because I wanted to serve two endpoints (in different rooms) from the ER and fiber link: a Meridian 218 and Allo USBridge/DigiOne Signature. BUT, against expectations, it sounded better with another Cisco -maybe because of some synergy with the ENO that ER lacks ??
1 Like
You have clearly done the leg work to establish the optimal layout.
I am interested in the sequencing of these devices as I am interested in both the ENO and ADOT, and wonder exactly what is the best position for either of these in my LAN.
One other issue is whether the balance of budget invested in digital ‘noise shaping’ vs. streamer/dac(s) in your system makes sense. i.e. if you were starting afresh with the same budget might you just get one good switch (say, an EE or ER) and spend more on a streamer/dac?
In what way Nigel ?
In hindsight, I would choose ENO over ER as my only filter. However the <$1,000 that I might have saved not buying an EtherREGEN with a good power supply doesn’t get me to the next step up in the streamer world.
I am not aware of a truly excellent, Roon ready transport with good power and AES/EBU or S/PDIF output for less than $2,000. Meridian 818v3? AURALiC ARIES G2.1?
In that certain switches like the ER, EE and PheonixNET have been designed for audio applications to reduce noise , whereas the Cisco 2960 is designed for managing high-volume data transfer in work/industrial applications, which it does very well.
I am no expert and I rely on what I read about the noise-reduction capabilities of various switches.
The Cisco Catalyst switches I’ve used are all very electrically quiet, unlike various others such as cheap Netgears, and a non-Catalyst commercial grade Cisco I had which was like a hornet’s nest.
The 2960s are not cheap, to buy new they would have cost more than an EE8 despite being made in huge quantities. I admit I haven’t made a direct comparison, but I’m not convinced that any perceived sound quality differences can be shown to be caused by them being electrically noisy.
1 Like
For the record I didn’t say the Cisco 2960 was noisy, just possibly not the quietest.
I have two Catalyst 2960s (I tried daisy-chaining) and one of them has an internal SMPS. I didn’t like what that 2960 did to SQ and have removed it. I can’t be sure however if that was due to the noise generated by the internal PS entering my LAN, but have my suspicions.
I will however add that the first introduction of the 2960 improved SQ quite noticeably, but the further addition of the ER improved things further.
I’ve bypassed the internal power supplies in both of my Catalysts, adding a 2.5mm connector at the rear of the case so that I can try different external models. I can also switch back to stock.
So far, I don’t hear much difference. Is there a linear supply proven to make them “quiet”?
Don’t know.
But I have just replaced the stock SMPS on my ER with a supposedly ‘quieter’ IFi iPower X (12V/2A) SMPS and noticed a subtle but worthwhile improvement.
Yes, replacing the supplied ER SMPS was worth it for me as well, and that new iFi is a decent value IMO.
But now you need to tell us all about ADOT, and even how you’ve tried different SFP modules to find optimum performance!
I assume that comment is ‘tongue in cheek’!
Seriously, I presume you would recommend trying the ENO before the ADOT?
BTW, which PS do you use on your ER?
ENO over ADOT
I had ordered a massive 19v ZeroZone lps from China for my NUC running Roon ROCK (because I was using its HDMI output for multichannel) when they sent a 9v by mistake. Rather than have me ship it back, they just sent another with the correct voltage, which made the 9v available for ER.
If you search for comments by @Peder on previous threads his group is experienced at bypassing the psus on 2960s.
Wow, JimDog, that’s a huge amount to digest. Can’t someone just tell me which power supplies for Cisco switches were found to make an appreciable audio difference? Or point me to the posts that specifically address the issue?
Peder and his friends removed the internal psus form 2960s and iirc added in linear psus of some sort instead.
Others used industrial LPSUs.
And a few of us used Power over Ethernet (PoE) where you use one PD 2960 that is plugged into the mains to send both power and signals to another receiving 2960, which cut the noise further.
Hi Nemo,
I reckon it had about 150 hours on it by the time I made the decision, but having decided to keep the ADOT and the ENO, that was enough expense for the moment! The streaming cable was good and I’m sure given more time it would improve and settle in more, but it didn’t make me want to part with my money like the other two!
Nigel,
From my experience, I would recommend you try the ENO before exploring the optical fibre route. The bonus with the ENO is that it doesn’t need power and it can easily be swapped into different locations to see where it works best in your system. Of the two options, I would say that the ENO has effected the biggest overall improvement. The ADOT addresses slightly different things for me, but it has allowed the ENO to really shine; the two do work really well together in my system, which is typical because I really only wanted to spend the money on one of them and the rest on another powerline!
2 Likes